In this enlightening episode, Ginger Healy and Julie Beem sit down with Diane Gould, LCSW, and leading voice in the PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) movement in North America. As co-author of Navigating PDA in America and Founder of PDA North America, Diane shares her deep expertise and personal journey—including her recent autism diagnosis—to help unpack the complexities of this misunderstood profile of autism.

Together, we explore what PDA is, how it differs from traditional views of autism and oppositional behavior, and why recognizing it matters so much. From practical strategies to systemic change, this episode is a must-listen for parents, educators, and professionals working with neurodivergent children.

• What Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is—and what it isn’t

• Why PDA is often misunderstood as oppositional defiance

• The power of the distinction: “I can’t” vs. “I won’t”

• The origin and mission of PDA North America

• What effective support looks like for PDA individuals

• Common misconceptions in schools and clinical settings

• The importance of collaborative, flexible approaches

• One small but powerful change you can make today

Navigating PDA in America By Diane Gould, LCSW is a groundbreaking guide for parents, educators, and clinicians seeking to understand and support individuals with PDA in a U.S. context. https://a.co/d/4HS7wy1

🌐 Connect with Diane Gould & PDA North America:📥

• Website: https://pdanorthamerica.org/

• https://pdanorthamerica.org/free-pdfs/

• info@pdanorthamerica.org

• www.pdanorthamerica.org

• learn.pdanorthamerica.org

• facebook.com/pdanorthamerica

• • Instagram.com/pdanorthamerica
  • @PDANorthAmerica

• PDA North America Resources:

  • PDA Learning Lab - self-paced pre-recorded webinars & trainings - https://learn.pdanorthamerica.org/
  • Annual Conference - March 5-7th Virtual & In-Person outside Chicago
  • PDA Insights Articles - Articles posted regularly on various PDA topics - https://pdanorthamerica.com/insights
  • PDA-Affirming Provider List - over 500+ providers that consider themselves PDA-affirming, sorted by state/province - https://pdanorthamerica.org/pdaaffirming-providers/
  • Upcoming Webinars & Events - details and registration for all upcoming announced offerings - https://pdanorthamerica.org/events/
  • Parent Provided Educators List (if you have a PDA child that goes to an educator that is PDA affirming, we'd love for you to submit them to be listed!) https://pdanorthamerica.org/pda-affirming-providers/
  • Free Peer Support Groups - support groups that meet regularly - https://pdanorthamerica.org/support-groups/
  • YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/
  • Free Downloadable PDF Resources - free downloadables - https://pdanorthamerica.org/free-pdfs/
  • PDA Community Contact List - parents and PDAers seeking a local community of people that understand and value their experience - https://pdanorthamerica.org/community-list/
  • Support Shop - PDA Swag shop - https://pdanorthamerica.org/supportshop/#products

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  Let’s keep growing a trauma-informed, attachment-focused community. 💙

  
  

In this heartfelt and reflective episode, Julie Beem and Ginger Healy return to a profound conversation from Season 1 with the late Cissy White—trauma survivor, fierce advocate, and the originator of the term Joy Stalking.

As the world faces rising despair and isolation, Julie and Ginger explore what it means to stalk, savor, and sustain joy—especially in the face of pain, trauma, and fear. Drawing from Cissy’s wisdom, Brene Brown’s research, theological insights, and their own personal journeys, they unpack how joy can be a radical act of healing and resistance.

You’ll discover why joy is not the same as happiness, how trauma can block joy, and why cultivating even the tiniest moments of joy might just be one of the most important things we can do—for ourselves, our children, and our communities.

“Joy stalking is always healing and useful. It’s about savoring life through sensing, using my body, absorbing, feeling all the good stuff.” — Cissy White

“Joy isn’t the opposite of sadness. It’s the opposite of fear.” — Anne Robertson via Brené Brown

“Joy doesn’t betray but sustains activism… joy is a fine initial act of insurrection.” — Rebecca Solnit

“We can’t experience joy when we’re scanning for danger. Trauma blocks joy—but healing invites it back in.” — Julie & Ginger

In this thought-provoking episode of Regulated & Relational, Ginger Healy and Julie Beem invite you to explore the transformative power of empathy—not just as a personal virtue but as a vital, actionable skill that the world needs now more than ever.

• Listen actively – Focus on understanding, not fixing.
  

• Challenge your assumptions – Seek to understand those who are different from you.
  

• Model empathy for children – Help them recognize their own feelings first.
  

• Be compassionate with yourself – Self-awareness is the foundation for empathy.
  

“Empathy isn’t about imagining yourself in someone else’s shoes—it’s about listening deeply to their story and believing them.” – Ginger Healy