Are giant pandas really bad at reproducing—or have humans been getting the story wrong? Dr. Brandie Smith, director of the Smithsonian’s National Zoo and Conservation Biology Institute, joins Jason Herbert for a funny, surprising conversation about panda conservation, animal behavior, and life behind the scenes at one of America’s most beloved zoos.

Drawing on her new book, Smith introduces the personalities behind the panda cams and explains what it takes to care for animals with a worldwide fan base. We explore why bamboo-eating pandas are classified as carnivores, what scientists learned about panda breeding, and how protecting habitat helps secure the species’ future.

Then there’s panda diplomacy: Richard Nixon’s trip to China, the pandas that captivated Washington, and the musk oxen America sent in return. How do you transport a giant panda across the world? Why do cubs born at the National Zoo go to China? And what happens when a panda needs emergency surgery?

Along the way, Smith shares her unexpected path into zookeeping, her bond with an orangutan named Lucy, and why researchers sometimes wear panda suits scented with panda urine. From Anchorman to the serious work of saving wildlife, this is a conversation about the animals we love—and the people who dedicate their lives to them.

Follow Reckoning with Jason Herbert on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share this episode with the animal lover in your life.

About our guest:

As the John and Adrienne Mars director of the Smithsonian's National Zoo and Conservation Biology Institute, Brandie Smith oversees the 163-acre Zoo facility in Washington, D.C.’s Rock Creek Park and the 3,200-acre Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute campus in Front Royal, Virginia. She is responsible for the operations of the public Zoo in Washington, D.C., which has approximately 1.8 million visitors a year, and manages the Zoo’s groundbreaking conservation biology research team that works in more than 30 countries. Smith also oversees educational programs, ticketed events and other public services and programs.

Smith joined the Smithsonian’s National Zoo and Conservation Biology Institute’s animal care staff in 2008 and helped to revitalize the giant panda program by integrating excellence in animal care with the latest breakthroughs in reproductive biology. Her efforts to merge these two disciplines have contributed to the birth of three surviving cubs, Bao Bao in 2013, Bei Bei in 2015, and Xiao Qi Ji in 2020.

Prior to joining the Zoo, Smith spent 10 years as vice president of animal conservation at the Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA), where she was responsible for coordinating the cooperative conservation and scientific activities of more than 200 member institutions and nearly 1,000 animal programs. She facilitated the Animal Health Committee, Wildlife Conservation and Management Committee, Field Conservation Committee and Animal Data Committee.

During her tenure at AZA, Smith advanced multi-institution amphibian conservation efforts. She stewarded the creation of the Bushmeat Crisis Task Force, a coalition of more than 30 conservation organizations that, from 1999-2009, focused on identifying and supporting solutions to the bushmeat crisis in Africa and around the world. She also helped launch the Butterfly Conservation Initiative, jointly established by AZA and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in 2001, to engage zoos and aquariums in the recovery of federally listed butterfly species in the U.S.

Earlier in her career, Smith was a rhino keeper at the Dallas Zoo, a curatorial intern at the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute, and a behavioral research intern at the Pittsburgh Zoo. She is currently a member of the AZA’s Accreditation Commission and Small Population Management Advisory Group, as well as the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Conservation Planning Specialist Group.

Smith received her doctoral degree from the University of Maryland, where her research focused on how to manage large groups of animals — those that live in herds, flocks and tanks — where breeding pairs or individuals are difficult to identify and control. She has written many articles and book chapters on how zoos and aquariums can manage and conserve their animal collections, and she hopes that her research in population genetics will help increase the sustainability of both zoo and wild populations.

How much of what we know about General George S. Patton comes from George C. Scott? Author James Ellman joins historian Jason Herbert to revisit the classic 1970 film Patton and challenge the legend of one of World War II’s most celebrated commanders.

Drawing on his book Patton Reconsidered and the general’s own diaries, Ellman makes a provocative case for reassessing “Old Blood and Guts.” From North Africa and Sicily to the Battle of the Bulge, we examine Patton’s battlefield achievements, his relationships with Dwight Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, and the powerful connections that helped protect his career.

Did the Germans really fear Patton? Did the 101st Airborne need rescuing at Bastogne? And what does Hollywood’s portrait leave out about his assaults on soldiers, racism, antisemitism, and response to the killing of prisoners of war?

Along the way, we discuss the disastrous Hammelburg raid, combat fatigue and military leadership, and the overlooked American commanders Ellman believes deserve more credit. It’s a candid conversation about World War II, war movies, and how America chooses—and keeps—its heroes.

“We’re still here.” Historian Michael Oberg joins Jason Herbert to explore the history of the Onondaga Nation, keepers of the central fire of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, also known as the Iroquois Six Nations.

Drawing on his book The Central Fire of the Iroquois, Oberg traces a community’s enduring commitment to its homeland, sovereignty, and traditions despite centuries of invasion, dispossession, and efforts to erase its identity. We discuss the Peacemaker and Hiawatha, the Great Law of Peace, and how ceremony, diplomacy, and listening have sustained the Onondaga people.

What changes when we place Onondaga alongside Boston and Philadelphia at the center of early American history? How did New York acquire Indigenous lands—and why does Oberg challenge the claim that the Haudenosaunee were conquered during the American Revolution? And what does the Two Row Wampum teach us about sharing space without surrendering independence?

The conversation also connects boarding schools and removal policies to the struggle to restore Onondaga Lake and Creek. Along the way, we consider historians’ responsibilities to living communities and why Indigenous sovereignty and environmental restoration matter to everyone who shares these lands.

Follow Reckoning with Jason Herbert for more conversations about Indigenous history, American history, and the stories that shape our world.