For the finale of this season “More than a fish”, we’re switching it up! The roles are reversed – host Auston Chhor is interviewed by our podcast producer, Sofia Osborne, and is put in the hot seat to ponder some of the complex questions he’s thrown at guests throughout the previous episodes.

Auston is a Salmon Habitat Biologist for Raincoast’s wild salmon program, and a Registered Professional Biologist. He received a BSc in Biology from Queen’s University and went on to complete a Master’s of Science at Carleton University under Dr. Steven Cooke, where he studied how catch-and-release angling impacts the behaviour of fish – basically, what happens to fish when you catch them and let them go, and what fishers can do to minimize their impacts when doing this. Spoiler alert: fish don’t like being out of water!

Read more:

• Show notes
• Auston’s notes from the field working in the Nicola
• See how they fly the drone and snorkel survey the Coldwater River
• Learn more about Raincoast’s salmon program
• Keep up with Raincoast’s events calendar to see when Auston or others host meet-ups
• Subscribe to Raincoast’s newsletter

We’ve heard from experienced professionals with years of experience, but what about the next generation of those wading the rivers and asking the research questions?

In the previous episode of “More than a fish”, we dove into early career exploration in biology and conservation, and Jason Hwang provided some enlightening insight into what those flipping through resumes may look for. But we want this season to be as widespread and all-encompassing as the animal that inspired it — Pacific salmon — so if you’re a student, or considering graduate school, we hope this episode will serve as a useful reference.

Auston Chhor welcomes Arielle Koenig, a master’s student at the Pacific Salmon Ecology and Conservation Lab at the University of British Columbia, with her research focusing on flood plain habitats, fish passage, and invasive species. Before venturing into this graduate degree, Arielle worked as a field biologist at Pearson Ecological working in the lower Fraser, where she and Auston crossed paths (or more accurately, crossed streams).

When entering your master’s, it’s common to have a lot more questions than solely the one your work will center around: Is there a right time? How is financial stability even an option? What will a typical day look like? Wait, you mean YOU’RE in charge now?

For Arielle, her thesis explores overwintering fish growth and survival, specifically juvenile coho, in flood plain habitats situated near different types of flood gate structures. Basically, Arielle is looking at how young coho in their first one to two years of life use their habitat, and how they do during this time before heading to the ocean.

Beyond her research, the conversation flows into unexpected challenges of fieldwork, relationships with supervisors, and being exposed to the sociology side of biology as someone studying species as culturally centric as salmon.

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org

Additional resources

• Pacific Salmon Ecology and Conservation Lab
• Pearson Ecological
• Flood gate animation (shown at 1:25)

Are you a student or someone wanting to break into the environmental career sector? A 20- or 30-something grappling with the question of getting your master’s? This is the episode for you!

In this installment of “More than a fish”, host Auston Chhor sits down with Jason Hwang, Chief Program Officer and Vice President Salmon with Pacific Salmon Foundation. He is also joining the selection committee for the 2025 Raincoast Ocean Science Awards, happening on November 20th at the Vancouver Aquarium. Jason began as a habitat biologist at Fisheries and Oceans Canada for the BC Interior North region. Growing up in North Delta, he spent his weekends fishing and was naturally drawn to what was under the water’s surface. Now, he oversees and supports all PSF salmon initiatives, working with First Nations, crown government agencies, other NGOs, academia, and industry.

As Jason states early on in the conversation, he knows just as well as anyone else working in this realm that there is no “career in conservation for dummies” handbook. As someone who sifts through many resumes from hundreds of applicants, Auston asks what Jason looks for in potential hires. The response may not be what you expect … i.e., it’s not necessarily a MSc next to your name.

“Say I’m talking to you and your twin brother, and your twin brother went and got his master’s, and you spent two years carrying an electrofisher up through devil’s club streams in the middle of the North doing fish salvage for a pipeline… I start to ask you ‘How would you mitigate the effects of a road or a pipeline and maintain conservation priorities for natural resources?’… you are going to have a lot of hands-on knowledge to actually do something.”

Jason shares what stands out to him, and how getting a role in an environment that is solely academically oriented is like making the NHL … but the other roles are there for those who can find a way to take what they’ve learned in science and academic training and combine it with applied, real-world experience. This is a marketable skill that generally isn’t taught in a university classroom.

The reality? This career space isn’t black and white — it’s not academia versus industry, good versus evil. Don’t be afraid to ask questions, challenge common paths, and approach your next move with curiosity over rigidity.

Additional resources:

• Career opportunities with PSF
• Conservation Careers job board
• Interview with Jason for the Raincoast Ocean Science Awards
• Subscribe to Raincoast’s newsletter to be the first to hear about job opportunities!

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org

You’ve heard the saying before: “let nature do its thing.” But if someone kicked the crap out of your friend, would you step back to let them heal? Or rush them to a hospital? And if they were bleeding, would a bandage suffice? Or would you want to find the source?

This may seem like a far cry from the subject of salmon, but it’s not — this is exactly what process restoration is, and a big part of guest Jessica Hutchinson’s work. Jessica is a restoration biologist and Executive Director of Redd Fish Restoration Society, a registered charity that has worked with permission and in partnership with the nuučaanuł Nations in their ḥaḥuułi (territory) for over 30 years. Using science, technology, and Indigenous knowledge, Redd Fish works to restore damaged ecosystems, rebuild wild salmon stocks, and inspire an ethic of stewardship. Plus they produce some really cool videos.

Host Auston Chhor chats with Jessica about her journey to Redd Fish, how a summer Tofino trip turned permanent, and what the name of the organization means. The two then go on to discuss the organization’s approach to healing watersheds — if you’ve listened to previous episodes of “More than a fish” you’ll know the interconnection of salmon to BC’s landscapes is boundless, so it’s not surprising that a holistic approach to their recovery is necessary. What are the root causes of degradation?

“Maybe we shouldn’t even use the term restoration, because it implies we can actually take it back to something it was before, and that’s probably not true. It’s about accelerating recovery and stewardship, and investing in these watersheds for the long-term.”

Can restoration be forward-facing?

Additional resources:

• Redd Fish Restoration Society
• Kelp forest work in Clayoquot or Barkley Sound
• Redd Fish’s amazing merch

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org

In this episode, host Auston Chhor sits down with Tom Rutherford, Executive Director of the Cowichan Watershed Board. Tom has been involved in building partnerships to support community empowerment for salmon and watershed sustainability over nearly 40 years. Over the course of a long career with Fisheries and Oceans Canada and working with Living Rivers / British Columbia Conservation Foundation, Tom has evolved into a talented science communicator.

What even is a watershed board? This is the question Auston first asks Tom, getting the conversation flowing into how the practice of opening ears can open minds, and lead to opening doors for opportunity. In Tom’s work with the board, he highlights the need to listen, shift perceptions, and consider the concept of whether we have enough science, but need more social science.

“My theory is there’s not enough of us who are engaged professionally in this work to make a difference. In order to move the needle, we have to bring everyone along with us.”

A solution? Outreach and engagement. Tom and Auston provide some examples of great science communication, and discuss how it can occasionally be looked at condescendingly, or completely overlooked altogether.

Other topics include: the 2003 Chinook crisis in the Cowichan River, the 2023 unprecedented fish mortality event, a six foot tall dancing Chinook, and how things aren’t going to be the same, but they’re going to be okay (if we take action).

Additional resources:

• Cowichan Watershed Board
• Tom’s home waters: Kelvin Creek Watershed, a small tributary of the Koksilah
• The 2003 Chinook Crisis in the Cowichan River
• Poisonous shellfish warnings on Vancouver Island
• Watershed superheroes, Water Woman
• Mr. Floatie, Victoria’s dancing piece of poop to advocate for water treatment
• Chinook Shimmy, Cowichan Watershed Board’s dancing salmon
• 2023 fish mortality event

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org

In this episode of More than a fish, host Auston Chhor returns to the roots of seeing salmon as sustenance, culture, and identity through speaking with guest Murray Ned, a member of the Sumas First Nation located in the Fraser Valley. He also formerly served as Councillor for Sumas First Nation and as the Fisheries Manager for the Sto:lo Tribal Council.

Murray is the Executive Director of the Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance, where he is a part of numerous regional and provincial fishery committees, task, and working groups. The LFFA is an Indigenous technical organization that works to advance the collective fisheries interests of Lower Fraser First Nations. One of the ways they do this is by holding monthly fishers Forums to discuss common issues in the lower Fraser River and its tributaries, where each member Nation of the 30 that compose the LFFA (24 signatory, 6 non-signatory) sends a delegate.

“We’ve got an obligation — an inherent obligation — to look after the resource, the water, plus those that rely on the water, including the salmon… we also have an obligation to bridge relationships and understand that we have to look after the fish wherever they migrate.” – Murray Ned

Auston asks Murray to travel back to his first memory of salmon, how he made the jump from millwright to fisheries management, as well as his visions for the Lower Fraser. They then go on to discuss the Fraser River Sockeye collapse of 2009, when over 10 million fish were estimated to return but only a fraction actually showed.

Can a crisis bring people together? Or is it a matter of fighting over what’s left?

Additional resources:

• The Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance and Member Nations
• Fraser River Sockeye collapse of 2009
• The Abbotsford Flood 2021
• Q&A with Murray Ned; Fraser Valley Current
• Learn more about this season’s host, Auston Chhor
• Learn more about Raincoast’s wild salmon program

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org

A salmon habitat biologist and a recreational angler sit down to record a podcast…

Some say that scientists may butt heads with those who love fishing, but the two groups have more in common than one may think. This week, Auston Chhor chats with Rodney Hsu, founder and host of the popular YouTube channel Fishing with Rod, whose videos have amassed over 23 million views. Auston himself learned how to fish by watching Rod’s content, and has been a longtime fan and subscriber (one of the channel’s 81,000 of them).

Rod first started the channel in 2001, teaching those who tuned in about saltwater and freshwater angling throughout BC. He’s a prominent voice for the recreational angling community, serving as a public advisor for the Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC and a representative of Fisheries and Oceans Canada Upper Fraser Valley Sport Fishing Advisory Committee.

The two discuss Rod’s 25-year journey building the brand and how it evolved into an online cornucopia of information for those wanting to break into the world of fishing in BC, a space where the knowledge gap can be vast and intimidating with regulations and timing, let alone technique.

“There’s a lot of misunderstanding… I think most people who get into fishing really want to do the right thing. No one intentionally wants to harm fish, or poach, or do anything illegal, and it’s really hard to follow the regulations. That’s where I came in, to bridge that gap.” – Rodney Hsu

The conversation goes on to explore the impact of catch and release angling, hot button issues between the recreational sector and decisionmakers, as well as fishing being a pathway to caring.

“We all want the same thing — we all want sustainability in salmon returns. We just disagree on a few other things… like how to achieve that.” – Rodney Hsu

Additional resources:

• Fishing with Rod
  • YouTube
  • Instagram
  • Facebook
  • TikTok
  • Website
• Video with Dave Scott: Reclaiming Fraser River Estuary for Juvenile Pacific Salmon | Fishing with Rod
• Keep Fish Wet: Science-based advice to help anglers improve the outcome for each fish they release
• New study reveals pathways to transform conflict over contentious salmon and killer whale management in BC; Identifying opportunities towards conflict transformation in an Orca-Salmon-Human system

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org

In this episode, host Auston Chhor is joined by fellow Raincoast team members Dr. Allison Dennert, Quantitative Salmon Ecologist, and Dave Scott, Research and Restoration Coordinator for the Lower Fraser Salmon Program, who provide some fundamental background information on all things salmon.

Discussing their focus areas, Allison and Dave talk about different species, life cycles, and the challenges salmon face. Diving deeper, Allison explains the connection between fish and land, pulling from her doctoral research on the connections between salmon and coastal plant communities. Dave takes us into the world of hard hats and habitat restoration, collaborating with municipalities on urban salmon, and working in the Fraser River estuary, which many call the “Grand Central Station” of juveniles.

Dave Scott is a salmon biologist with a focus on understanding juvenile salmon life histories to facilitate better restoration planning. Dave is currently a PhD student in the Pacific Salmon Ecology and Conservation Laboratory at the University of British Columbia where he studies under highly renowned salmon researcher Dr. Scott Hinch. Dave’s PhD research focuses on understanding juvenile Chinook estuary reliance through field research capturing out migrating juvenile salmon in the Fraser River estuary along with laboratory studies conducted at UBC. Dave also leads Raincoast’s Fraser Estuary Connectivity Project which has created three large breaches in the Steveston Jetty, reconnecting the river to its delta after over 100 years. As part of his research Dave also leads our effectiveness monitoring which has demonstrated the movement of juvenile salmon through the newly created breaches along with measuring changes in the distribution of freshwater and sediments and changes in vegetation.

Dr. Allison Dennert conducts scientific research and applied conservation initiatives to advance ecologically sustainable salmon management in BC and support the recovery of at-risk populations. She completed her Doctorate in Biology at Simon Fraser University in the Earth2Ocean Research Group. Her research examines the role of nutrients from spawning Pacific salmon in terrestrial ecosystems, and she is passionate about coastal wildflowers and their pollinators. As a part of her doctoral work she spent several years living and working in Haíɫzaqv Territory in the heart of the Great Bear Rainforest, boating to salmon watersheds. She also holds a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of British Columbia in Biology, with a specialization in Marine Biology.

Additional resources:

• Eco labelling programs for eating salmon responsibly
  • OceanWise
  • Marine Stewardship Counsel
  • Where can you source BC fish
    • Authentic indigenous Seafood
• Alison’s paper, the relationship between salmon and plants
  • https://doi.org/10.1098/rsos.221008
• Stillcreek Streamkeepers
• The great salmon sendoff
• Coho Festival

Raincoast Radio is hosted by Auston Chhor and produced by Sofia Osborne. This podcast is a production of Raincoast Conservation Foundation, a team of conservationists and scientists empowered by research to protect the lands, waters and wildlife of coastal British Columbia. Learn more and support our work at raincoast.org