Dr. Matthew Jones is a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in working with co-founders to help manage critical conflicts that threaten their success. He is the author of the book, "The Cofounder Effect: How to Diagnose, Fix, and Scale Healthy Communication for Startup Success."

Matt has worked with hundreds of bootstrapped and VC-funded co-founder teams to help them repair and manage their relationships in the context of their growing business. In this episode, we discuss a wide range of co-founder relationship topics, including:

• Why co-founder alignment sets the floor and ceiling for entire company culture and employee performance.
• How most co-founder conflicts aren't about surface issues but deeper psychological needs for recognition and power.
• Why research shows companies founded by friends are more unstable than those started by strangers.
• The three communication languages of cofounders: operational (business), psychological (feelings), and archetypal (the vibe).

Quote from Dr. Matthew Jones, a clinical psychologist

“And those differences can start off and be quite positive. If we can manage that tension effectively. That's the magic of co-founders, right? Is the complementary skills and ways of operating that allows you to land somewhere even more effective than you could have individually.

“But those same differences that give you that magic sauce also can be sources of friction, like an arthritic knee that just aches every now and then, and sometimes gets worse and worse, right? And so that's where the tensions really have to be managed. And so that's why I advocate for making those differences as conscious and explicit as possible.”

Links

• Dr. Matthew Jones on LinkedIn
• Cofounder Clarity website
• Book: “The Cofounder Effect: How to Diagnose Fix and Scale Healthy Communication for Startup Success”

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Yuval Selik is co-founder and CEO of Promomash, a software platform and managed service for Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) brands to manage their trade promotions and field marketing activities. Yuval is a former CPG founder who encountered the expensive, complex, and crucial process of managing trade promotions with stores and distributors.

Promomash launched in 2015 to serve mid-sized CPG companies that don’t have custom software and their own teams to manage promotion spend and budget compliance with retailers. With 125 employees, they now serve over 500 customers with their software and optional analysts who can perform complex sell-through reconciliation and spend analysis.

Yuval and his co-founder raised under $1 million from angel investors to get started, and the company is now profitable and growing steadily. Yuval also hosts The 7 Hats Podcast, which helps entrepreneurs master the seven key areas of their lives, ensuring both success and fulfillment.

Quote from Yuval Selik, the founder and CEO of Promomash

“That's really the reason why we did not raise funds from big investors, because I don't want to have the pressures of somebody on my board telling me that I have to grow 50%, 80%, or 100% year over year.

“Sometimes you need to pull back in order to fix your product. Sometimes you need to push forward and step on the gas a little bit. But that decision needs to be my decision, not a VC investor’s decision.

“Others in our market that raised big VC funding, in our competitive landscape. They are not run by their founders; they're run by their investors”

Links

• Yuval Selik on LinkedIn
• Promomash on LinkedIn
• Promomash website
• The 7 Hats Podcast

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Vince Mayfield is cofounder and CEO of TalkingParents, a co-parenting app for communication and coordination used by divorced parents raising children. Cofounder Stephen Nixon was a lawyer with family cases who recognized the need for a secure, unalterable communication record to improve co-parenting and family harmony.

He pitched a development company owned by Vince and Louis Erickson to build the first app. They came together to cofound TalkingParents in 2012. Stephen worked with judges, courts, and lawyers to build awareness and get their first customers. The app records and stores all communications between co-parents, including chats, message, phone calls, and calendars. The company started growing and eventually became profitable as word spread, they charged more for the product, and the app improved.

TalkingParents is now a profitable and growing company with well over $10 million in revenue, 65 employees, 100,000 paying customers, and 500,000 people using the app. They are self-funded with no outside funding.

Quote from Vince Mayfield, cofounder and CEO of TalkingParents

“The company you are when you have 5 million in revenue and maybe 40 people, it's not the same company you are when you've got 20 million in revenue and say 80 people. It's not. You've got to iterate and change.

“And you've got to have the stamina for that. You've got to be willing to put in the effort and do that. Yeah, exactly. There's no shortcuts to this.

“I love it when people tell me, I've got an idea and I'm going to start up and it's going to go viral overnight. And my first thought is bulls--t. It's not going to happen that way.

“It's much harder than everybody thinks. You hear about the overnight success, but what you don't see is the 10-year grind that it took to get there. And the sacrifice and delayed gratification that goes along.”

Links

• Vince Mayfield on LinkedIn
• TalkingParents on LinkedIn
• TalkingParent website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Alan Miegel is co-founder and CEO of BetterComp, a modern compensation management platform for larger companies to manage compensation datasets to set market-priced salary benchmarks. Alan and his cofounders started the company in 2019 with founder funding, then raised angel funding as convertible debt from his friends in the tech industry.

They shipped their first “minimum sellable product” in 2020 and grew revenues steadily, doubling every year from $1M in 2022 to almost $10M in revenue in 2025. BetterComp now has over 80 employees and 200 customers.

In July of 2025, BetterComp raised a combined $33 million in growth equity funding from Ten Coves Capital and venture debt from Silicon Valley Bank. Alan and his cofounders still own a majority of the company. Now they have more resources and support to build on what has worked so far, enabling them to grow even faster and become a market leader.

Quote from Alan Miegel, cofounder and CEO of BetterComp

“Early on I didn't pay myself anything. Then I paid myself enough just enough to max out my 401k contribution, with no taxable income. I made a promise to my founders, my co-founders that I was going to pay them before I paid myself.

“I always paid my co-founders more than I made. That's still the case now. As the CEO, you think of it like you are the last one to get paid in this equation. You're not doing this to make money now, you're doing this to make money down the line.

“And you ask a lot of other people to make sacrifices, you ask them to make less than what they're used to making, so you have to put them first. Because if they see you putting yourself first, they're not gonna think they're the most important thing in the business, which they are..”

Links

• Alan Miegel on LinkedIn
• BetterComp on LinkedIn
• BetterComp website
• Founderpath
• Ten Coves Capital
• Union Square Advisors

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Zvi Band is co-founder and former CEO of Contactually, which was CRM software for real estate and other relationship-oriented professionals. Contactually was founded in 2011 with initial funding and support from 500 Startups in Silicon Valley. In the next five years, they raised a total of $15.5 million from institutional VC investors.

Contactually grew to about $10 million in revenue before growth stalled, and it became clear they couldn’t raise additional capital or grow big without funding. The company was sold in 2019 to Compass, a major real estate technology company and brokerage, to power their internal CRM platform.

In this episode, Zvi candidly shares his personal experience with VC funding, their opportunities and challenges, and the strategic dilemmas they faced along the way. Zvi now owns and operates a bootstrapped contact management software business called Relatatable.

Quote from Zvi Band, co-founder and former CEO of Contactually

“I realized I spent seven and a half years of my life in survival mode as a CEO with VC investors.. And at no point did I feel that like we were safe and things were fun, because the bank account was always trickling down a little bit.

“We always had big growth goals. And we were always thinking about, How do we get through the next VC funding round? At no point did I realize and celebrate that, hey, we built something really awesome.

“We could have chilled out once in a while or taken the team to Mexico for a week or something like that. But everything was around short term goals and what we need to do to get there that month.”

Links

• Zvi Band on LinkedIn
• Compass on LinkedIn
• Relateable website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Shoanak (Sean) Mallapurkar is the founder and CEO of Recruit CRM, a complete CRM and business management system for global staffing companies and recruiting agencies. He started the company in 2017 with his father, a technical expert who had experience as a senior executive in large staffing companies.

Sean handled customer-facing jobs in sales, success, and product management, and his Dad managed engineering, finance, and marketing. They started in Pune, India, but both Sean and his father moved to Dubai in 2023 for lifestyle and tax benefits. Recruit CRM employs over 150 remote employees in India to serve thousands of customers in more than 100 countries.

Recruit CRM revenues grew quickly to nearly $10 million ARR in 2025. Their product suite includes CRM, billing, applicant tracking, AI resume parsing, financial management, and more. The company is very profitable and growing steadily (Rule of 70) and the co-owners/co-founders have no intention of selling. They see a steady path to a $100 million revenue business as an independent company.

Quote from Soanak (Sean) Mallapurkar, founder and CEO of Recruit CRM

“The one thing that really worked for us was keeping costs extremely low and having over three years of capital runway. That wasn't millions of dollars for us. It was $100,000. And we didn't even spend it. We only spent about $80K before we started selling and got to breakeven.

“When you have enough time,you can you can do more things, you can try more things, and make it happen. If you only have a year to succeed, you're screwed. Get through the really hard stuff and get to a million in revenue

“Then resist the urge to raise capital until you are at a million dollars in revenue. Then ask yourself if you need it. If you can resist the urge to raise capital, a lot of opportunities open up to you. And it’s a very different financial outcome than having investors.”

Links

• Shoanak (Sean) Mallapurkar on LinkedIn
• Recruit CRM on LinkedIn
• Recruit CRM website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Jesse Burrell is the CEO and co-founder of BatchService, now known as BatchData, a real-time data and API platform designed for prop-tech startups and enterprises requiring massive and current housing data. Jesse was a real estate investor who needed better data to target his marketing efforts. BatchService was launched in 2018 with data brokering and subsequently built additional tools and apps.

BatchService grew rapidly to $35 million in revenue by 2022, but regulation changes and economic shifts contracted their core business, forcing them to make drastic cutbacks and pivots. They launched an enterprise data service with APIs for larger companies in 2021, which is now known as BatchData.

In July 2025, BatchService sold its “B2C” software business, comprising two successful products — BatchLeads and BatchDialer — to PropStream for an undisclosed cash amount. Jesse and his co-founders retained the B2B BatchData enterprise data business, now with 30 employees.

Quote from Jesse Burrell, cofounder and CEO of BatchService

“I had a couple years where I was pinching myself with the amount of money I was taking home every month. It was pretty wild how fast we rose in the first years. So when things changed for us, the fall really hurt, especially when we felt invincible and every idea worked brilliantly for three years.

“When things changed, we stayed pretty patient. We stayed pretty calm, but there was a lot of nights, weeks and months. I went home feeling like a failure and I don't think I was failing. I just think it was the conditions that we got put in. But it was really hard on me mentally. It was very, very tough to get punched so hard in the mouth with like a multitude of things in a short period of time.

“You're not as good as you think you are when it's going good and when it's going bad. It's not typically as bad as you think you are. A lot of it has to do with conditions and things that happen that are out of your control. You're fighting that because you're an entrepreneur and you'll figure it out if you are just persistent and don’t give up.”

Links

• Jesse Burrell on LinkedIn
• BatchService on LinkedIn
• Batchdata website
• Stewart Title website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Brian Forbis is the CEO and president of Blood Bank Computer Systems, Inc. (BBCS), a business his mother created in the 1980s to serve the non-profit blood bank industry in the US. Brian started in sales, then transitioned to run development, and assumed the role of CEO in 2019 when he bought the company.

BBCS rebuilt its entire mission-critical ERP software as a modern cloud solution over the last five years and is actively converting customers from legacy on-premise systems. With 40 employees and nearly $10 million in revenue, BBCS serves the blood banks that supply 20% of the blood products in the U.S.

Their industry presents numerous unique challenges, including negotiating co-op pricing, complying with FDA regulations, and managing partner-based relationships with customers. Brian is running this as a private, long-term business that will support the important blood bank industry for decades to come.

Quote from Brian Forbis, CEO and president of BBCS

“We don't have churn in customers, and we don't have churn in employees either. The people we attract to our blood bank software business really get bought in that we're helping people. We tell our team that you are affecting the lives of tens of thousands of people every day

“There's a reason we're regulated because we make decisions on the safety and efficacy of blood. And that's a big deal. We're committed to what we’re doing. We build a key component of saving lives.

“I drive that home every time I can talk about it. Making quality personal is one of our key values that we emphasize and discuss frequently.”

Links

• Brian Forbis on LinkedIn
• BBCS on LinkedIn
• BBCS (Blood Bank Computer Systems) website

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.