Becky and Taina try something new in this episode—a looser, more conversational format inspired by their friends from BRB, Crying. Each host brings a “messy situation” to unpack together.

Taina starts with a real-life scare: police chasing a man through her backyard in Baltimore. The conversation unfolds into a raw discussion about policing, white conditioning, racialized fear, and what “abolish the police” really means. Together, they pull apart the myths of “good cops” and community safety, tracing policing back to its roots in slavery and exploring what real care-centered community safety could look like.

Then Becky brings her own messy topic: a threads debate about whether all landlords are unethical. As a small-scale landlord herself, she wrestles with her own complicity in a capitalist system while still trying to do right by her tenant. The pair examine how housing, like policing, reflects deeper systemic issues—and why nuance matters when we talk about ethics and liberation.

The conversation winds into reflections on whiteness, masculinity, and how even our attempts to “opt out” of oppressive systems (like calling yourself a “non-practicing white”) can be another form of avoidance. This one is layered, uncomfortable, and exactly the kind of conversation Messy Liberation is built for.

🧠 Themes

• The conditioning of fear and trust around policing
• How racialized power shows up even in “liberal” white responses
• The difference between policing and community accountability
• Ethical gray areas in housing and capitalism
• Why abolition is about care, not chaos
• Reckoning with privilege, whiteness, and the myth of neutrality

🔗 Resources Mentioned

• Designer Terrence Williams
• The BRB, Crying podcast

🎤 WE ARE PROUD MEMBFRS OF THE FEMINIST PODCAST COLLECTIVE