Mark introduces the guys and topic. He cites how aligned both guys are. As they enter the call they’re thinking of the same topics and thoughts

Neurodivergence (See definition at the bottom of the show notes)

Mark shares a call about his grandson and his current struggles which may well involve him being on the spectrum

Jim shared his perspective about labels and crutches and his own story about being neurodivergent himself growing up

Jim’s perspective is to reframe this label as an opportunity to think of things differently

Neither guy likes meds, but do agree that in some cases they can be a Godsend

Jim tells a story about meeting his son’s fiancee’s family…one of who was neurodiverse. So many different degrees of the neurodivergent mind

Mark reads the definition that Jim provided (Version posted below)

Mark jokes that there is no normal and the definition sounds like the description of a teenager

Elon Musk comes up. Mark shares a recent interview he saw with Musk about Mars

Mark was amazed. Jim agrees

Jim talks about Dan Sullivan’s recent diagnosis in later age and how one of his clients benefits from doing work with him being a neurodiverse person - “Unique Abilities”

The importance of self-awareness and self acceptance

Mark shares his opinion on the value of self awareness as well as how unique people are. He also talks about the danger of labeling. Excuses, victimhood and manipulation. Both guys warn about the problems with victimhood. Mark thinks his grandson’s temptation might be the manipulation

Jim shares more about Dan Sullivan’s position about neurodivergence

Violence and anger are common traits of neurodiverse people who don’t get help

Mark looks at neurodivergence as simply another challenge to be overcome. Jim agrees that overcoming hardship affects everyone

Jim is very skeptical about academia and neurodiversity

Mark shares his best childhood’s condition and his older brother’s inability to stay focused

Jim says it’s been around forever. People just understand it better. He also clarifies that his challenge is dysgraphia. More than dyslexia. And how each condition affects how his brain works. He thinks AI will be a game changer for the neurodiverse

Mark shares the details of discussing his grandson with his other parents and relatives. Mark asks Jim’s opinion on all of this and his own journey

Jim mentions his efforts to develop his own brand and how his unique abilities are big part of this

Jim brings up fortitude - the ability to develop it in the face of hardship

He shares a few childhood stories about hardship and fortitude as a neurodiverse kid. The story about his dad and “I can’t” and some other school related stories. Being embarrassed about poor reading and comprehension in front of the other kids. How he beat up all the kids who made fun of him and how anger manifested itself. Jim’s football story speaks to the importance of a good mindset and proper mentality

Final story is about his first concussion and subsequent failure at community college

Essentially Jim is on a whole new journey with a new perspective on why he is who he is and how he’s accomplished what he has. Then he shares a story of how harmful comparison is

The whole conversation is very personal and enlightening

Mark frames the lessons…No labels, no victim behavior and no manipulation. No one is special and everyone is special. Mark thinks it’s very important and hopefully medicine is a last step

Jim shares the wisdom of life happening for you and not to you. Just show up and there’s no such thing as “I can’t”

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"Neurodivergent refers to individuals whose brains function differently from what's considered typical or normative, encompassing a variety of conditions like autism, ADHD, and learning disabilities. It's a broad term that recognizes natural variation in how brains process information, rather than viewing such differences as deficits."