What if the way we’ve been thinking about leadership is fundamentally wrong?

This episode is the meetup Chris hosted with Dr. Kathleen Allen, author of Leading from the Roots, and it explores a completely different way of thinking about leadership—one grounded not in control, hierarchy, or efficiency… but in nature.

Kathleen’s work focuses on regenerative leadership—designing organizations that function more like ecosystems than machines. And as you’ll hear, the implications are massive.

Key topics:

• Why treating organizations like machines creates burnout, silos, and dysfunction
• The shift from extractive systems to regenerative ones—and why it matters
• How a simple change in perspective (seeing people as living systems) transforms culture instantly
• Why most org charts are backwards—and what a “tree-based” org structure reveals
• The three stages of ecosystem development—and how they map directly to organizations
• Why diversity and relationships—not control—create resilience
• What distributed leadership actually looks like in practice (and why it works)
• How organizations unintentionally create fragility through efficiency and monoculture thinking

One of the biggest takeaways:
If your system is producing poor outcomes, the answer isn’t to push people harder—it’s to redesign the system.

This conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, culture, and even success itself.

Connect with Dr. Kathleen Allen:
Website: KathleenAllen.net
Email: keallen1@charter.net

About Parks and Restoration:
Parks and Restoration is the podcast for park and conservation professionals who want to lead better—by building stronger teams, healthier organizations, and more impactful work. Through real-world stories and practical insights, we explore how to create environments where both people and ecosystems can thrive.

What makes people want to stay on your team for the long haul?

In this episode, Chris is joined by Des Moines County Conservation’s Environmental Education Manager, Marcus Nack, for a conversation about workplace culture, leadership, and the kind of organizational ecosystem that makes people want to stay, grow, and do their best work. The discussion starts with a real example: an intern who came to the team looking for clarity and left saying, “I want to do this forever.” From there, Chris and Marcus unpack what creates that kind of environment—and why great culture is never an accident.

Marcus shares his own path into conservation and environmental education, from growing up in suburban Illinois and hunting with his dad in Wisconsin, to college, grad school, camp leadership, and eventually landing in southeast Iowa during the chaos of 2020. Along the way, he reflects on the experiences that shaped his leadership style and why fun, play, reflection, and emotional awareness matter more than most managers realize.

The conversation also explores the overlap between leadership and ecology—a theme longtime listeners will recognize. Chris and Marcus talk about how creating a thriving workplace is a lot like creating habitat: when people feel supported, energized, and safe to grow, better outcomes follow. They also dig into Marcus’s approach to leading the education team, including how he uses reflection, after-action reviews, and curiosity instead of blame to help people improve.

They also touch on Marcus’s new podcast, Paid Time Outdoors (find it on YouTube and Facebook), which explores how people choose to spend the time they work so hard to earn. It’s a fun side conversation, but one that ties right back into the episode’s bigger point: people thrive when they stay connected to what gives them energy.

A few takeaways from this episode:
A great workplace is built on trust, fun, and genuine human connection—not just productivity.
Reflection matters. Teams improve faster when they regularly ask what worked, what didn’t, and what they can do better next time.
Play is not a distraction from growth. It’s often how growth happens.

About Parks and Restoration:
Parks and Restoration is the podcast for parks and conservation professionals who want to be better leaders for their teams, agencies, and communities. Through conversations on leadership, culture, personal growth, and the work of conservation, the show helps listeners build healthier organizations and more meaningful careers. Learn more at ParksandRestoration.com.