Sometimes--as in the case of Rev. Zach from Ep. 73--we record an episode with folks and then, before we can release it, life takes interesting turns. Since talking to us 6 months ago, Zach is in the process of leaving the Episcopal denomination in the US and considering his ministerial call in a new way. He stopped by (metaphorically) to update us and share some more thoughts. We’re grateful for his ongoing discernment and willingness to bring us along!

Reverend Zach joins TJ and David to share his unexpected journey from being in a same-sex marriage (Side A) to embracing a historic Christian sexual ethic (Side B). Raised Roman Catholic and shaped by a call to ministry, Zach talked about the questions that surfaced during seminary, how getting married changed his understanding of marriage, his longing for friendship, and the theologians and writers who shaped his thinking.

We appreciate Rev. Zach’s honesty, insight, and experience with navigating life and ministry as a Side B priest in a largely Side A denomination.

—What’s happened since? Come back on 12/11 for a bonus follow-up episode from Zach since this episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/newkinship/p/bonus-catching-up-with-zach-6-months

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Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

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★ About Our Guest

Rev. Zach ministers to the people of Long Island, NY and recently wrapped up his chaplaincy residency at Stony Brook University Hospital. You’ll most likely find him deep in a Jacques Ellul book or rooting for his favorite team, the Detroit Tigers. You can contact him on Instagram: @zach_enthusiastic

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★ Timestamps

(00:00) #73 - Theologies of Marriage and Friendship: Rev. Zach’s Story from Side A to Side B

(02:10) How old are you? And other awkward life questions

(17:53) A call to the priesthood

(27:13) “Have you heard of Wesley Hill?” (and many others)

(35:12) William Stringfellow had a big impact

(41:44) Becoming Side B, engaging Side A

(48:47) Was the breakup more relational or theological?

(55:27) It’s about the covenantal nature of God

(59:58) Does your Episcopalian church know you’re side B?

(01:05:01) Why stay in a “big tent” church?

(01:08:03) Beyond Side A: What does a marriage covenant mean?

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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!

Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship

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★ Credits

Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★

Dear listeners, join me on a special story with my neighbor Martina. She has fled to the US as an asylum-seeker in fear of her life from persecution and murderous extortion. Since then, she’s become not only a friend, but a partner in neighborhood hospitality and church community!

Her ability to stay here is literally a matter of life and death.

Some friends and I are working to raise funds for her asylum case in immigration court so she can live and work here in the US (and in my neighborhood!). Please consider what you could contribute to support her case.

https://givebutter.com/case4martina

* Martina has raised $2500 to start legal representation

* She needs to go from $2500 to $3500 by December 15th

* Then further she needs to at least raise $3500 to $5000 by February 15th.

Sincerely,

David

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★ Timestamps

(00:00) Introduction to Martina’s Story

(04:15) Martina’s Life in Ecuador

(05:31) Martina’s Entrepreneurial Journey

(12:21) Facing Extortion and Corruption

(21:18) Fleeing to the United States

(22:24) Life in the United States

(25:04) Finding Hope and Community

(34:08) Reflections and Future Hopes