In this episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker speaks with writer and policy advisor Jamie Bristow as a prelude to our upcoming mini-series on systems change. Over the coming weeks, Jamie will serve as guest host for five episodes with expert panelists diving into a variety of topics on contemplative based systems change.

As our world grows in complexity, we also find ourselves more interconnected than ever with profound challenges that often require cooperation across diverse groups with different values or goals. Systems change refers to efforts to shift the underlying structures, relationships, power dynamics, and mindsets that shape how complex systems behave. These efforts increasingly recognize that inner dimensions—such as awareness, values, and ways of relating—play a critical role in enabling lasting change. In this interview, Jamie shares key concepts of systems change and highlight areas that will be explored throughout the five episodes of the mini-series:

• The Work that Reconnects: Enlivening our response with active hope
• Healing Systems: Integrating trauma for social change
• Theory U: Guiding awareness-based systems change
• Social and Ecological Mindfulness: Connecting personal and planetary health
• Mindset Shift: Transforming whole systems with contemplative approaches

Since this podcast launched, Wendy Hasenkamp has guided listeners through 84 in-depth conversations, bringing warmth, curiosity, and intellectual depth to every episode. After five years with the show and over 13 years with the Mind & Life Institute, Wendy is stepping into a new chapter, returning to school and pursuing studies to become a clinical herbalist. While we’ll miss her deeply, we’re excited about this new path for her, where she will surely continue to share her wisdom and guide others toward greater well-being and connection. In this special episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker sits down with Wendy for a conversation reflecting on her time as host—the insights gained, the themes that emerged, and the questions that continue to inspire her. They cover many topics, including:

• her own path into contemplative science;
• finding a home in the Mind & Life community;
• the dialogue between Buddhism and science;
• supporting science education for Tibetan monastics;
• science communication, nuance & mindfulness hype;
• how this podcast was born and evolved over time;
• the importance of open-mindedness and critique in science;
• some key themes that emerged from years of conversations with leading thinkers and scholars;
• reckoning with an interdependent self;
• the problem of othering;
• mind-body connection;
• reflections on where contemplative science has been and where it’s going;
• interconnectedness with nature;
• and her next steps in the world of herbalism and holistic medicine.

Full show notes and resources

Enjoy this episode with renowned meditation teacher, author, and creator of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), Jon Kabat-Zinn. This spacious and personal conversation is full of insights on a wide range of topics, including:

• what drew him to meditation;
• his development of and vision for Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR);
• the mystery of the line between the inside and outside of any system;
• adapting Buddhist practices for Western audiences;
• how mindfulness has been taken up in society, and science as a main driver;
• moving from "me" to "we";
• the challenges of repeatability in scientific studies of meditation;
• weaving together art and science;
• and how 50+ years of meditation has changed him.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with Zen Buddhist teacher and author Roshi Joan Halifax. A pioneer in the field of end-of-life care, Roshi Joan was instrumental in developing the dialogue between science and Buddhism, and has been an advocate for engaged Buddhism, social activism, and compassion in response to today's crises. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• the birth of dialogues between the Dalai Lama and scientists;
• how our minds are "enactive";
• compassion as emergent and dependent on context;
• the trainable factors that set the stage for compassion;
• the importance of embodiment in health care;
• non-referential compassion;
• interdependence, compassion, and climate change;
• working with dying people;
• how letting go is safe;
• clinical use of psychedelics;
• and reflections on the field of contemplative science.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode from the Mind & Life archive, Wendy spoke with the renowned Buddhist practitioner and author Matthieu Ricard. Matthieu was integral to the founding of contemplative science, serving as both a participant and co-investigator in many early studies, and has deep expertise in compassion, altruism, and well-being. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• his roots in both science and Buddhism, and his appreciation for rigorous inquiry;
• his role as a participant and collaborator in contemplative science;
• lessons from research on compassion vs. empathy;
• how the self shows up (or doesn't) in compassion;
• links between self-focus and vulnerability;
• hedonia, eudiamonia, and self;
• altruism and our current crises;
• reconciling three time scales of concern;
• sentience, life, and interdependence;
• caring for our whole interconnected system;
• the practice of awe;
• using photography to share basic human goodness;
• balancing fame and monastic life;
• and a poignant example of his own personal experience of care.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with Buddhist scholar and meditation teacher Liz Monson. Liz is one of the pioneers in combining Buddhist teachings with nature-based practices, and her work helps us connect in an embodied way to the fundamental interconnectedness of the world. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• how spirituality and connection to nature fed into her path to Buddhism;
• nature-based practices in the Buddhist tradition;
• moving beyond human-centrism;
• the energies of the natural world;
• the sandcastle of the constructed self;
• why human beings are really here;
• lessons about human nature from 9/11;
• wisdom from the trees;
• practices to connect with the elements of nature;
• working with elemental energies to understand emotions;
• understanding the divine masculine and feminine archetypes;
• psychedelics and meditation as complementary pathways toward awakening;
• an experiential approach to suffering and healing;
• and the need for self-compassion and love.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with cognitive and affective scientist Christy Wilson-Mendenhall. Christy has a long history studying emotions, and her work integrates psychological science and contemplative philosophy to explore well-being and resilience. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• integrating basic science and philosophy with on-the-ground research;
• viewing emotions as malleable, situated, and learned;
• working with emotions to enhance well-being;
• intersections of cognitive science and Buddhist philosophy;
• the critical role of community and relationships;
• understanding deep resilience;
• a free online course to help build resilience and emotional well-being;
• making worldview explicit;
• foregrounding interconnectedness when teaching;
• the power of emotional granularity;
• eco-anxiety, eco-grief, and solastalgia;
• the role of imagination and visioning;
• priming ourselves for a better future;
• taking seriously and learning from the perspective of marginalized folks;
• and making small personal changes to effect systems change.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with professor, writer, and thought leader Karen O’Brien. Karen is an expert on the human and social dimensions of climate change, and her work helps us understand the role of the mind and worldview in how we create and respond to environmental change, and global change more broadly. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• her path into environmental studies and understanding how humans respond to climate change;
• consequences of a reductionist worldview;
• understanding quantum social change;
• entanglement, and relationships as a fundamental aspect of our world;
• the importance of ethics and values in a system;
• our power as individuals to change systems;
• exploring causality and challenging the 'single cause';
• why the way we show up matters;
• how contemplative practice can help us embody transformative change;
• envisioning a new paradigm;
• Indigenous wisdom and interconnected views of nature;
• emotional difficulties in deeply accepting an interconnected reality;
• acknowledging and working with eco-grief and eco-anxiety;
• living with uncertainty;
• challenges in measuring transformative change;
• art as a lens to understanding;
• and the many possibilities for scaling change into societies.

Full show notes and resources