To conclude this mini-series, guest host Jamie Bristow is joined by Gretchen Steidle, cathy-mae karelse and Rufus Pollock to step back from individual approaches explored so far and consider the wider field they are collectively helping to shape. As interest in contemplative approaches to social and ecological transformation continues to grow, how do we make sense of a rapidly expanding landscape of people, projects, organisations and ideas? Together, they discuss the importance of mapping emerging fields: not simply to catalogue what exists, but to help practitioners find one another, foster collaboration, identify gaps, and make the field more visible to researchers, funders and institutions. The conversation also explores what it takes for an emerging movement to develop coherence, legitimacy and shared purpose. Bringing the series to a close, it offers a hopeful bird's-eye view of a field that is beginning to recognise itself, and asks what might be needed for its next stage of maturity.

cathy-mae karelse, PhD, a changemaker and scholar practitioner who leads Climate Youth Resilience, a global south-facing program that approaches climate resilience and systems change from the inside out.

Rufus Pollock, who is co-founder of Life Itself and the Second Renaissance Initiatives and is focused on inner-led social change to renew our civilization's foundations.

Gretchen Steidle, Director of Spirituality and Social Change at the Garrison Institute and Chief Weaver for the Conscious Change Collective, a network of practitioners

Full show notes and resources

In this episode of the mini-series on systems change, guest host Jamie Bristow turns the lens around. Rather than beginning with a particular inner approach and asking what it might offer, the conversation starts with the system itself: the patterns, power dynamics and meaning-making structures that shape the crises we face. Joined by Rachel Lilley, Thomas Legrand, and Wakanyi Macharia-Hoffman, Jamie explores why contemplative and embodied approaches may be vital not only for shifting deep leverage points such as worldview and values, but also for helping systems practitioners navigate complexity, bias, and uncertainty. From food systems and public policy to AI, Ubuntu, and embodied systems leadership, the discussion ranges widely while staying grounded in a central question: what does it take to work with systems in ways that are more relational, reflective, and transformative? The result is a rich conversation about inner-led change, viewed through a broader systems lens.

Thomas Legrand is Lead Advisor for the UNDP-convened Conscious Food Systems Alliance, and the author of Politics of Being: wisdom and science for a new development paradigm.

Rachel Lilley is an Associate Professor at the University of Birmingham, where she is programme director of the MSc in Systems Thinking and Leadership and pioneers the integration of embodied practice and inner inquiry into systems practice.

Wakanyi Macharia-Hoffman is an Ubuntu philosophy thinker, the founder of African Folktales Project and the director of African AI Design Research at Inclusive AI Lab, Utrecht University. , where she bridges indigenous African knowledge for inner human development with AI design ethics.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker speaks with writer and policy advisor Jamie Bristow as a prelude to our upcoming mini-series on systems change. Over the coming weeks, Jamie will serve as guest host for five episodes with expert panelists diving into a variety of topics on contemplative based systems change.

As our world grows in complexity, we also find ourselves more interconnected than ever with profound challenges that often require cooperation across diverse groups with different values or goals. Systems change refers to efforts to shift the underlying structures, relationships, power dynamics, and mindsets that shape how complex systems behave. These efforts increasingly recognize that inner dimensions—such as awareness, values, and ways of relating—play a critical role in enabling lasting change. In this interview, Jamie shares key concepts of systems change and highlight areas that will be explored throughout the five episodes of the mini-series:

• The Work that Reconnects: Enlivening our response with active hope
• Healing Systems: Integrating trauma for social change
• Theory U: Guiding awareness-based systems change
• Social and Ecological Mindfulness: Connecting personal and planetary health
• Mindset Shift: Transforming whole systems with contemplative approaches