In this episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker speaks with writer and policy advisor Jamie Bristow as a prelude to our upcoming mini-series on systems change. Over the coming weeks, Jamie will serve as guest host for five episodes with expert panelists diving into a variety of topics on contemplative based systems change.

As our world grows in complexity, we also find ourselves more interconnected than ever with profound challenges that often require cooperation across diverse groups with different values or goals. Systems change refers to efforts to shift the underlying structures, relationships, power dynamics, and mindsets that shape how complex systems behave. These efforts increasingly recognize that inner dimensions—such as awareness, values, and ways of relating—play a critical role in enabling lasting change. In this interview, Jamie shares key concepts of systems change and highlight areas that will be explored throughout the five episodes of the mini-series:

• The Work that Reconnects: Enlivening our response with active hope
• Healing Systems: Integrating trauma for social change
• Theory U: Guiding awareness-based systems change
• Social and Ecological Mindfulness: Connecting personal and planetary health
• Mindset Shift: Transforming whole systems with contemplative approaches

Since this podcast launched, Wendy Hasenkamp has guided listeners through 84 in-depth conversations, bringing warmth, curiosity, and intellectual depth to every episode. After five years with the show and over 13 years with the Mind & Life Institute, Wendy is stepping into a new chapter, returning to school and pursuing studies to become a clinical herbalist. While we’ll miss her deeply, we’re excited about this new path for her, where she will surely continue to share her wisdom and guide others toward greater well-being and connection. In this special episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker sits down with Wendy for a conversation reflecting on her time as host—the insights gained, the themes that emerged, and the questions that continue to inspire her. They cover many topics, including:

• her own path into contemplative science;
• finding a home in the Mind & Life community;
• the dialogue between Buddhism and science;
• supporting science education for Tibetan monastics;
• science communication, nuance & mindfulness hype;
• how this podcast was born and evolved over time;
• the importance of open-mindedness and critique in science;
• some key themes that emerged from years of conversations with leading thinkers and scholars;
• reckoning with an interdependent self;
• the problem of othering;
• mind-body connection;
• reflections on where contemplative science has been and where it’s going;
• interconnectedness with nature;
• and her next steps in the world of herbalism and holistic medicine.

Full show notes and resources

Enjoy this episode with renowned meditation teacher, author, and creator of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), Jon Kabat-Zinn. This spacious and personal conversation is full of insights on a wide range of topics, including:

• what drew him to meditation;
• his development of and vision for Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR);
• the mystery of the line between the inside and outside of any system;
• adapting Buddhist practices for Western audiences;
• how mindfulness has been taken up in society, and science as a main driver;
• moving from "me" to "we";
• the challenges of repeatability in scientific studies of meditation;
• weaving together art and science;
• and how 50+ years of meditation has changed him.

Full show notes and resources