Dive into placebo effects in clinical trials, psychotherapy, and even conditions like Parkinson’s. Can a sugar pill really help someone heal? And what if it’s not just the pill, but the expectation of benefit, that drives the outcomes?

In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. John Kelley, one of the world’s leading placebo researchers, to explore how belief, expectation, empathy and the therapeutic relationship profoundly influence outcomes in both medicine and psychotherapy. Plus, they unpack a groundbreaking study that not only changed how we think about placebo effects, but how we think about healing itself.

👉 If you're a clinician, researcher, or just curious about the mind-body connection, this one’s for you.

🧠 Featuring:

• John Kelley, PhD | Deputy Director of the Program in Placebo Studies & the Therapeutic Encounters, Harvard Medical School; Licensed Psychologist, Massachusetts General Hospital
• Bruce Wampold, PhD | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin - Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate

🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share — and stay tuned for more deep dives into the science of healing.

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)

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Follow the Making Therapy Better project!

Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com

YouTube: / @makingtherapybetter

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araujo.

Intro/outro music is by Chris Haugen and is free for public use.

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#PlaceboEffect #Psychotherapy #Therapy #MindBody #JohnKelley #BruceWampold #Healing #Expectations #clinicalpsychology #HarvardMedicalSchool #PsychotherapyResearch #MentalHealth

In this inspiring episode, Bruce sits down with Dr. Louis Castonguay from Pennsylvania State University to delve into the evolution and current state of psychotherapist training and education. The discussion covers a broad range of topics, from the risks of holding rigidly to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) in training programs to importance of intellectual humility and the diminishing focus on foundational psychotherapy skills. Dr. Castonguay argues for an integrated training model that emphasizes trans-theoretical skills and exposing trainees to a wider range of theoretical orientations and perspectives, perhaps especially in programs that will still primarily focus on CBT. The episode also touches on the broader social and existential relevance of psychotherapy in today's complex world. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of psychotherapist training and supervision.

Dr. Louis Castonguay was awarded the Lifetime Contribution Award by the Society for Psychotherapy Research and is the author of numerous books including How and Why Are Some Therapists Better Than Others?: Understanding Therapist Effects.

Dr. Bruce Wampold, your host, is one of the most prominent psychotherapy researchers alive today and has co-authored the hugely influential books on this topic: The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work and the newest edition of Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)

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Follow the Making Therapy Better project!

• Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@makingtherapybetter
• Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan.

Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License.

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In this engaging episode, Bruce sits down with Dr. Julia Frank to discuss their collaboration on the newly revised edition of 'Persuasion and Healing,' a groundbreaking book on the science and philosophy of psychotherapy originally written by Julia’s father, Jerome Frank. The book has shaped generations of psychotherapists—including Bruce himself—and remains one of the most influential works in the field. Bruce and Julia delve into the rich history behind the seminal work, Jerome Frank’s unique background, the evolution of psychotherapy research, and the critical role of myth and ritual in therapeutic outcomes. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the fundamental principles that underpin the effectiveness of psychotherapy across various approaches.

Julia Frank, M.D. is emeritus faculty at the George Washington University School of Medicine, director of the Five Trimesters Clinic for pregnant and postpartum women, and co-author of the 2025 edition of 'Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy.’ Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. is a leading psychotherapy researcher, developer of the contextual model of psychotherapy, and co-author of ‘The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work.’

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com)

----

Follow the Making Therapy Better project:

• Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@makingtherapybetter
• Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/

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The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan.

Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License.

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