AI is changing work faster than people can change how they work

This requires a new approach to human adaptation, not just technology deployment.

A rich discussion with Nikki about how to move past chaotic AI adoption to focused, fast-paced organizational learning cycles, understanding at the same time that AI speed is unprecedented. We explore how leaders can transform, innovate, and amplify their impact in the AI age.

Many organizations are grappling with the “Shiny Object Syndrome” in AI adoption. It is vital to keep business fundamentals in sight given that AI is ‘just’ a tech to help meet business objectives, yet shiny object syndrome prevails in many companies - strategic business clarity does not come from AI.

Now is an opportunity for every business, also to stay competitive – the fundamental operating cycles are getting faster, and models are changing (from pyramid to molecular).

We discus how to ensure sustainable transformation, through continuous iteration in rapid 90-day cycles. This sprint-based approach allows for quick wins, builds internal capability, and maintains relevance in a fast-changing AI landscape.

Nikki shares insights from her 25-year career helping top brands reinvent their culture and capabilities.

What specific business objective could AI help your organization achieve in the next 90 days?

The main insights you'll get from this episode are :

1. Organisational learning cycles help leaders trying to navigate the rapid changes AI is wreaking on work – it is the greatest disruption in modern human history, and most leaders are ill equipped to deal with it.
2. It is not just a matter of AI adoption, but how to help humans adapt and relinquish evolutionary design to co-evolve with AI for a new reality that reshapes roles and value creation models.
3. It is vital to keep business fundamentals in sight given that AI is ‘just’ a tech to help meet business objectives, yet shiny object syndrome prevails in many companies - strategic business clarity does not come from AI.
4. Clearly defined AI projects create sustainable change, which requires continuous and rapid iteration – in cycles – for specific use cases to create the highest ROI and demonstrate the value of AI.
5. The superficial application of AI erodes trust and wastes resources; this new tech must be taught rather than learnt, which makes it more valuable yet also more difficult to create a culture of trust in it.
6. Deploying AI must begin with the people, not the project - AI is forcing a deep change in human beings who feel threatened evolutionarily by a lack of safety, certainty and comfort.
7. Embracing risk and navigating uncertainty is an identity/mindset shift and the starting point to determine which zone of genius remains and what must go; AI as a co-worker follows the reinvention of the people, the process and the tools.
8. Personal transformation is the first step towards reshaping the philosophy of leadership guided by core values; continuous learning is now the ultimate superpower to turn knowledge into wisdom.
9. Clarity, courage, and conviction could be joined by a fourth ‘c’, curiosity - we all have access to infinite intelligence, but it is our own inherent curiosity that will distinguish us from others

"The way we talk about change is more important than how we plan it.."

88% of organizational change efforts fail to produce lasting results. What if the solution isn’t a new framework, but a new conversation?

This episode challenges leaders to reconsider why change efforts fail, pointing to a surprising culprit: a lack of listening and communication. Jeff and I explore how shifting our approach to conversations can transform outcomes and build stronger, more adaptive organisations.

We literally change the conversation, digging into the fact that individuals are often ambivalent about change, possessing both reasons to accept it and reasons to hesitate. This ambivalence is not fixed but fluid, and can be navigated intentionally

Motivational interviewing (MI), originally developed in clinical psychology, provides a framework for guiding individuals toward change they cannot be compelled to make. Motivational Interviewing teaches us to listen for “change talk” and “sustain talk” — people’s own reasons for and against change.

This deep listening reveals the raw ingredients for productive dialogue, moving beyond fixed attitudes to address underlying concerns. It’s about meeting people where they are, acknowledging their ambivalence, and helping them clarify their own path forward. This approach doesn’t dismiss models; it feeds them the human insights they need to succeed.

How do you differentiate between true resistance and genuine hesitation in your teams?

The main insights you'll get from this episode are :

1. Conversations about change need to be front and centre in organisations – organisational change requires communication, commitment and engagement, making it easy to find excuses not to undertake it.
2. Failed organisational change comes at enormous cost, making successful organisational change essential for the bottom line - everyone is ambivalent about change, but leaders often interpret hesitation as resistance.
3. Change management has unhelpfully popularised the word ‘resistance’, yet attitudes towards change are not fixed - the many reasons why people are for or against change fluctuate; tweaking this balance can move the needle towards change.
4. ‘Resistance’ attributes intention without discretion or discernment, whereas it might be due to a lack of understanding or training - calling people resistant is self-fulfilling; likewise silence does not always signify defiance.
5. Motivational interviewing (MI) for organisational change can be defined as a set of conversational tools and skills for helping people move towards change that you can’t make for them – this makes it relatable and teachable.
6. Understanding how to listen differently, speak differently, and help build belief in different modes of communication means that small steps can be interleaved with immediate effect (MI-inspired microskills).
7. Learning to listen for change talk (someone’s own language of change) and sustain talk (someone’s own language against change) brings to light the ‘raw ingredients’ for a different kind of conversation.
8. Frameworks and models (i.e. planning) for organisational change don’t work, are unsustainably expensive and alienate staff; ‘all models are wrong, some are useful’ is true if they are used consistently.

"Leadership is a collective ability. It’s not an individual skill set."

Now more than ever this phrase rings true for leadership in teams, organisations and society as a whole. The inherited leadership model is destructive, not productive in today's interconnected world.

Never has it been more important to challenge the status quo, to unlearn old formatting and build new patterns so that organisations and teams can thrive. The best way to avoid risk is to actually do nothing.- Celine's observation highlights a critical issue in modern leadership. Many organizations inadvertently foster environments where inaction is safer than innovation. I see this firsthand frequently.

Leaders, fearing blame for mistakes, often maintain the status quo. This “risk of doing versus risk of not doing” dynamic stifles creativity and energy. We need leaders to challenge this complacency. Rather than trying to be the best, leaders should challenge themselves ethically and morally; pursue human pastimes to maintain emotional and creative ability; hold space to think and feel; and improve the quality of relationships with their people and between people - leadership is a collective ability, not an individual pursuit.

Celine shares her insights and experience from working with leaders all over the globe and from researching her book : Dare to Unlead.

The main insights you'll get from this episode are :

1. The inherited leadership model is destructive, not productive: it is evident in the corporate world that leadership has been transformed into an industry, making it difficult to progress (business- and human-wise) in large, industrialised companies.
2. Toxic patterns are reproduced, resulting in a male-dominated, ego-drive, territory-obsessed culture with the heavy infrastructure of prediction and control that is slow, outdated, inefficient, and comes at enormous personal, social and planetary cost.
3. Red flags often come in the form of multiple small indications, such as cultural, ethnic, and gender homogeneity at decision-making level; a prevalence of no vs yes; and difficulties driving innovative projects forwards because leaders are risk averse.
4. A lack of accountability for not doing the right/wrong thing leads to complacency and ‘yes’ people who maintain the status quo, leaving no room for new blood or change, which in turn produces stagnant energy that is directed into negative politics.
5. In the workplace, we have to be with people we haven’t chosen or who aren’t like us, giving us an opportunity to develop our diversity muscle in terms of dealing with different opinions, worldviews, etc. against a clear mandate of making the business work.
6. Leadership is about enabling something productive; creating value across the board; and mobilising all talent - energy and power are omnipresent and can be either a constraint or an opportunity, depending on the mindset.
7. Familiar power structures are still honoured, e.g. one knowledgeable expert has the right to overrule all other opinions, but they are no longer applicable given that managers now are often less knowledgeable than their direct reports.
8. Knowledge and relational work has changed the foundations of old decision-making systems, with more agility and diversity required - leaders must stop seeing themselves as the centre/top of the system, and rather as an