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Let's Talk about CBT: A solid return on investment

Let's Talk about CBT: A solid return on investment

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 In this special episode celebrating World CBT Day 2025, we explore this year's theme: CBT: A Solid Return on Investment. Host Helen Macdonald, Senior Clinical Advisor at BABCP, is joined by a range of voices reflecting on the impact, value, and future of CBT. We hear from: Dr. Adrian Whittington, National Clinical Lead for Psychological Professions at NHS England, about the rollout and outcomes of NHS Talking Therapies.Dr. Stirling Moorey, BABCP President, on the historical development of CBT and its increasing relevance and recognition over the decades. Nic, a former CBT client, who shares how therapy helped him manage anxiety linked to a long-term health condition.Dr. Saiqa Naz, past president of BABCP, who discusses her personal journey into CBT and her commitment to inclusion, diversity, and working with underrepresented communities This episode offers a rich blend of lived experience, clinical insight, and future vision, showing how CBT continues to be a wise investment for individuals, services, and society as a whole. Further information and links: Visit BABCP to learn more about CBT Find support via NHS Talking Therapies Discover more about World CBT Day Find our sister podcasts and all our other episodes in our podcast hub here: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Have feedback? Email us at podcasts@babcp.com Follow us on Instagram & Bluesky: @BABCPpodcasts Credits: Music is Autmn Coffee by Bosnow from Uppbeat Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/bosnow/autumn-coffee License code: 3F32NRBYH67P5MIF This podcast was produced by Steph Curnow Transcript: Helen: Hello, and welcome to Let's Talk About CBT, the podcast where we talk about cognitive and behavioural psychotherapies, what they are, what they can do, and what they can't. I'm Helen Macdonald, your host. I'm the Senior Clinical Advisor for the British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies. Welcome to this special episode of Let's Talk about CBT celebrating World CBT Day. World. CBT Day takes place every year on the 7th of April, and this year's theme is CBT: A Solid Return on Investment. In this episode, we're exploring just what that means- I will be speaking with Adrian Whittington, who's the National Clinical Lead for Psychological Professions at NHS England and with Stirling Moorey, who's our current BABCP President about how CBT has developed over time and the importance of continued investment in it. We'll also hear a personal story from Nic, who is a former client of Stirling's, who shares how CBT helped him manage anxiety and improve his quality of life. Finally, I sit down with Saiqa Naz who is past president of BABCP to talk about her journey into CBT from starting out in the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies services, to completing a clinical psychology doctorate, and how she embodies the idea of CBT being a real return on investment. We hope you enjoy this episode and the range of voices reflecting on the impact and value of CBT. Let's get started! Here's my conversation with Adrian and Stirling…. Adrian, would you introduce yourself please? Adrian: Yes. Hi. I am Adrian Whittington. I'm National Clinical Lead for Psychological Professions at NHS England, which means within England I'm the professional lead for psychologists, psychological therapists, and psychological practitioners. Helen: Thank you, Stirling, please introduce yourself. Stirling: Hi, I'm Stirling Moorey. I am currently the president of the BABCP and I'm a retired psychiatrist and really have been around in the CBT world since 1979. So, Adrian is speaking about CBT today and in the UK particularly and I'll just give a bit of a view of what it's been like to be in the CBT world for this length of time. Helen: Thank you very much. And so Stirling, if we come to you first, that's a long career- you must have seen a lot of developments over the years. Tell us a bit about what you've seen and how things have developed. Stirling: Indeed, I mean, so right at the very beginning when I was a medical student, cognitive therapy was just being invented. And so we had BT, Behaviour Therapy, but not the CBT that we have today. And so it was quite sort of revolutionary. The behaviour therapists look down their nose a little bit at it, the psychoanalytic therapists very much looked down their nose, and I remember at one point talking to a psychoanalyst who told me that being a CBT therapist was a bit like playing a tin whistle compared to being a concert violinist. I think things have changed since then. So, over the years, what's happened is that really from the work of pioneers like Isaac Marks in behaviour therapy, Aaron Beck in cognitive therapy, for the first time psychotherapists started to actually address what evidence do we have that this works? And using randomised control trials. And this has been really powerful. It was revolutionary at the time because people thought you couldn't manualise therapy but ...
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