In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor share insights from their latest book, ‘Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro: Strategies to Ignite Learning’, and dive into actionable strategies that L&D professionals can borrow from the world of marketing.

Discover why shifting your mindset from “order taker” to strategic business partner is essential for today’s L&D professionals. We also uncover how to personalise learning at scale, run effective learning campaigns, and apply marketing-inspired strategies to create learning experiences that resonate – and deliver results.

About Bianca Baumann

Bianca Baumann is a seasoned learning strategist, international speaker, and author who specialises in innovative workforce enablement solutions. With deep expertise across L&D, employee experience, performance management, and future workforce planning, she partners with global organisations to design data-driven, business-aligned strategies. Known for her work with C-suite leaders and high-performing teams, Bianca brings a sharp focus on transforming human capital into a competitive advantage.

About Mike Taylor

Mike Taylor is a learning consultant on a mission to eliminate boring, ineffective training. With hands-on experience across nearly every role in L&D, he combines practical know-how with a passion for finding smarter, more engaging ways to help people learn. A self-described “recovering bad student,” Mike brings deep empathy for learners and a talent for simplifying complex topics. He helps organisations design impactful, tech-savvy learning experiences that connect with today’s distracted workforce.

Key takeaways:

• Start small and don’t be intimidated: You don’t need a big budget or fancy tools to bring marketing thinking into learning. Simple, actionable steps – even with no-cost tools – make a difference. (And, get others excited to join in!)
• Adopt a learner-centred mindset, not just content creation: Marketing excels at understanding audiences. Use tactics like research-based personas and journey mapping to make learning experiences resonate and drive business outcomes.
• Think in campaigns, not just courses: Like marketers, L&D should use content strategically – spread it across multiple channels, personalise when possible, and align everything to the bigger business workflow.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction
• (00:06:11) Design learning for cognitive understanding
• (00:07:19) From order taker to partner
• (00:11:13) Prioritising actionable sales metrics
• (00:14:39) Marketing funnel concept for learning
• (00:17:43) Reframing persona use in design
• (00:23:25) Evolving learning journeys
• (00:27:25) Personalisation in marketing technology
• (00:29:01) Content organisation for enhanced learning

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Bianca Baumann on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Taylor on LinkedIn
• Train Like A Marketer Website
• Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro – Book

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Dr. Alaina Szlachta, founder of Design by Development Solution, explores measuring success in learning and development. She guides us in thinking like researchers to effectively gather data from stakeholders and align training solutions with business outcomes.

Tune in as she highlights starting with simple, relevant data points and introduces 'Return on Expectations' to evaluate if training meets stakeholder goals. We'll also discuss the challenges of measuring soft skills, the pitfalls of satisfaction metrics, and the importance of understanding the core problems training aims to address.

About Alaina Szlachta

Dr. Alaina Szlachta creates data-enablement systems for small businesses to show the outcomes and the impact of their learning programs. She is the founder and creator of Measurement Made Easy, a community of practice which uses microlearning, mentorship, and real case studies to create simpler solutions to common measurement and evaluation challenges.

An academic turned entrepreneur, Alaina Szlachta, PhD, is the founder of By Design Development Solutions, a consulting firm specialising in data enablement. Drawing on her background as a researcher and public health educator, she partners with learning and operations teams to integrate measurement and evaluation systems into their daily practices, providing continuous feedback loops that enhance quality, efficiency, and profitability.

She generously shares her expertise through writing and speaking engagements, and as the host of Measurement Made Easy, a free community of practice that guides practitioners in refining their impact measurement strategies.

Key takeaways:

• Think like a researcher: Effective measurement starts with forming hypotheses and gathering relevant data. Approach your L&D projects with a research mindset for valuable insights.
• Focus on business Impacts: Align your learning solutions with business goals and measure the impact on those outcomes. Rather than fixating on satisfaction scores, emphasise whether the training achieves its intended goals.
• Start simple: Begin with a single, manageable data point to make the data analysis process approachable. Ask stakeholders about their expectations before and after the training to measure 'Return on Expectations.'

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:02:06) Measurement and Evaluation in L&D
• (00:05:56) Monitor one data point over time for insights.
• (00:08:01) Delegation clarifies priorities and reduces burnout.
• (00:13:18) Start small and utilise existing data creatively.
• (00:14:51) ‘Return on Expectations’: Measuring program investment outcomes.
• (00:20:17) Don't assume learning solves every performance problem.
• (00:21:43) Show value by aligning with business goals.
• (00:27:49) Methodology is essential for academic success, not engaging.
• (00:29:33) Use data to learn and improve strategies.

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Alaina Szlachta on LinkedIn
• Alaina Szlachta’s Website
• Read Alaina Szlachta book Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, we are joined by Dwayne Wood, an associate professor at National University and an expert in instructional design for workplaces. As the landscape of AI, especially generative AI like ChatGPT, rapidly evolves in higher education, Dwayne shares his unique perspective on how this technology is reshaping learning experiences. From the ethical implications to the challenges of maintaining critical thinking and creativity in students, this episode unpacks the complexities and opportunities AI brings into the educational sphere.

About Dwayne Wood

Dwayne Wood, Associate Professor at National University, is a renowned educator and instructional designer. His expertise lies in creating highly effective and engaging pedagogical methods, designing effective and engaging curricula, creating learning materials tailored to diverse audiences, and designing educational experiences for adult learners.

With a distinguished background in military service, Dwayne brings a unique perspective to the world of education, blending discipline and innovation to create transformative learning experiences.

Key takeaways:

• Applying learning to the workplace: Dwayne emphasises the importance of helping students transfer their academic knowledge to real-world work environments. This practical approach is crucial in preparing better citizens and a workforce ready for modern challenges.
• The impact of generative AI on higher education: Generative AI, such as ChatGPT, is revolutionising traditional assessments and learning models. While it can make tasks like writing research papers more efficient, there is concern over whether the cognitive effort required for genuine learning is being diminished. Dwayne discusses the balance universities need to find in leveraging AI tools responsibly.
• Experiential learning and AI literacy: In his own instructional design courses, Dr. Wood uses AI technologies as both instructional tools and as subjects of study. Students engage in project-based learning, reflecting on how AI affects their task completion and overall learning experience. This method fosters transparency and critical discussion about AI’s role in education and the workplace.
• Developing human skills: Despite AI's growing presence, certain skills remain uniquely human. Dwayne highlights critical thinking, creativity, and cultural awareness as irreplaceable by AI. He advocates for educational strategies that emphasise these human aspects, ensuring students are well-rounded and versatile thinkers.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:06:43) Education must enable workplace skill transfer.
• (00:07:46 Teaching AI tools for instructional design experience.
• (00:11:44) Technology confirms biases; critical thinking requires multiple perspectives.
• (00:15:55) Teaching responsible technology use remains challenging.
• (00:19:20) Reframing discussions as experiments for leadership development.
• (00:22:22) AI enhances learning, not replacing human thought.
• (00:24:53) Cultural literacy and creative thinking are essential.

Links from the podcast

• Connect with Dwayne Wood on LinkedIn
• National University Website