In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John turn the conversation inward. After several weeks focused on how to develop others, they explore the other side of the equation—how to be developed. Whether you’re a middle manager, senior leader, or individual contributor, your willingness to be coached, challenged, and stretched is the foundation of your growth.

The hosts unpack what it looks like to approach development with openness rather than defensiveness, curiosity rather than cynicism. They revisit the pursuer–distancer dynamic from previous episodes, this time flipping the lens: instead of chasing reluctant team members, how can you stop distancing yourself from the people trying to help you grow?

The conversation dives into the role of ego, exploring how skepticism (“they don’t understand my work”) and excuses (“my boss doesn’t develop me”) often mask insecurity or fear. Josh and John walk through ways to reframe these stories, run small mindset experiments, and re-engage in genuine learning.

They also emphasize humble curiosity—not asking questions to prove a point, but asking to discover something new. Alongside this mindset, they talk about the importance of advocating for what you need and building a collaborative relationship with your manager.

The episode closes with a seasonal reminder about gratitude—both expressing and receiving it—as one of the most powerful yet underused tools for sustaining healthy development relationships.

1. Being developed is a choice. You can’t control your manager’s skill level, but you can control your posture and curiosity.
2. Watch for cynicism and defensiveness. Phrases like “they don’t get it” or “this won’t work for me” usually reveal ego, not truth.
3. Run the reframe experiment. Instead of “my boss doesn’t care,” try “my boss might care in ways I don’t yet see.” Look for small evidence of their effort.
4. Development is a two-way relationship. Managers can’t read your mind—advocate for what you need, clarify what helps, and initiate feedback loops.
5. Model what you expect from others. You can’t give what you don’t possess. Showing up as a learner sets the tone for your team.
6. Gratitude multiplies development. Leaders who express genuine appreciation build trust, retention, and resilience in their teams.

Reflect on your posture toward being developed.

• Are you open, curious, and receptive—or defensive, cynical, and closed?
• Identify one relationship where you might be distancing yourself from feedback or growth.
• This week, take one small step to re-engage:
  • Ask a question instead of making an assumption.
  • Invite feedback rather than waiting for it.
  • Express gratitude to someone who has invested in your growth.
• Lean toward curiosity and connection—it’s where learning begins.

• How to Know a Person — David Brooks The Coaching Habit — Michael Bungay Stanier
• Humble Inquiry — Edgar H. Schein
• The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram
• The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram
• Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, & Kaley Warner Klemp

In this follow-up to last week’s discussion on the Development Square, Josh and John explore what happens after you’ve identified where someone is on their growth journey. Once you know where a team member stands—whether they’re in the foundation, immersion, empowerment, or multiplication stage—the next step is figuring out how to coach, teach, and lead them toward mastery.

The hosts dig into two essential relationship dynamics that can either fuel or frustrate development:

• Pursuer vs. Distancer, where one person chases growth while the other avoids it, and
• Over-functioner vs. Under-functioner, where a leader tries to “save” others or a learner waits passively to be rescued.

Drawing from David Brooks’ book How to Know a Person, they discuss what it means to practice accompaniment—walking alongside someone rather than solving problems for them. They pair this with practical frameworks from The Coaching Habit (Michael Bungay Stanier) and Humble Inquiry (Edgar Schein), showing how asking the right questions can rebalance responsibility and deepen learning.

The episode then transitions into “gradual release”—a core concept in education that applies powerfully to leadership. Josh and John break down each stage of the model (“I do, you watch” → “I do, you help” → “You do, I help” → “You do, I watch”), explaining how leaders can adjust their coaching, feedback, and proximity as people grow in competence and confidence. Along the way, they tackle the tension between personalizing learning and maintaining accountability, and remind listeners that development requires both structure and stretch.

1. Accompaniment builds trust and ownership. True development happens when leaders walk with others, not ahead of them.
2. Beware of over- or under-functioning. Over-functioners rescue; under-functioners retreat. Both limit growth.
3. Ask more, tell less. Use inquiry to invite thinking and responsibility—especially as people gain competence.
4. Name the criteria for success. Learners need to know what “good” looks like before they can reach it.
5. Gradual release is the art of letting go. Effective leaders fade their support as skill and confidence rise.
6. Balance personalization with accountability. Adapt your approach, but don’t avoid necessary discomfort—growth lives there.
7. Feedback loops sustain progress. Check for understanding early and often. Real-time coaching prevents drift.

Return to the team member you identified last week in the Development Square exercise. Ask yourself:

• Are you over-functioning or under-functioning in your support?
• Are you telling too much—or asking too little?

Identify one way to rebalance your dynamic this week—whether it’s using a coaching question, creating clearer criteria for success, or scheduling a real-time feedback moment.

• How to Know a Person — David Brooks
• The Coaching Habit — Michael Bungay Stanier
• Humble Inquiry — Edgar H. Schein
• The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram
• The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram
• Concept: “Gradual Release of Responsibility” (Pearson & Gallagher, 1983)

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John dive deeper into their ongoing series on developing others, introducing a practical and powerful framework known as the Development Square from The Voice-Driven Leader by Jeremie Kubicek and Steve Cockram.

Building on last week’s conversation about mindset (“To Me” vs. “By Me”), this episode explores how leaders can translate self-awareness into actionable systems for developing people. The duo walk through the four stages of development—Foundation, Immersion, Empowerment, and Multiplication—and unpack how each represents a distinct phase of learning and growth.

Josh explains how the model builds on Maslow’s hierarchy of competence (from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence) and helps leaders identify where each team member is on their learning journey. Together, they emphasize that development is not an event—it’s a continual process of awareness, feedback, and adaptation.

They also highlight the emotional side of development: the “pit of despair” when confidence collapses, and the “green room” where skill mastery can become comfort or complacency. Through humor, stories, and practical examples—from new teachers to medical dramas—Josh and John make the case that great leaders must not only recognize these stages but actively guide others through them.

1. Development isn’t management—and it isn’t an event. True growth is woven into daily leadership, not reserved for workshops or annual reviews.

2. Everyone learns differently. What worked for you may not work for them. Development requires empathy, flexibility, and intentionality.

3. The Four Stages of Development:

   • Foundation (Unconscious Incompetence): “I do, you watch.” Excitement is high, competence is low.

   • Immersion (Conscious Incompetence): “I do, you help.” Mistakes rise, confidence dips—learning begins.

   • Empowerment (Conscious Competence): “You do, I help.” Skill is growing, autonomy increases.

   • Multiplication (Unconscious Competence): “You do, I watch.” Mastery emerges—and it’s time to develop others.

4. Beware the “pit of despair.” When confidence collapses, leaders must support—not rescue—those they lead.

5. Don’t get stuck in the “green room.” Competence can lead to complacency; stretch high performers by challenging them to multiply others.

6. Your mindset still drives your method. Even with a strong framework, self-preservation and ego can derail development. Stay other-oriented.

Think about one person you’re developing right now—a colleague, direct report, or team member.

• Identify which stage of development they’re currently in: Foundation, Immersion, Empowerment, or Multiplication.

• Ask yourself: What do they need from me at this stage?

  • More modeling and demonstration?

  • Shoulder-to-shoulder feedback?

  • Space to practice with support?

  • Stretch opportunities to mentor others?

• Bonus reflection: Where are you in your own development journey—and what kind of support would help you grow next?

• The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram

• The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram

• The Drama Triangle — Dr. Stephen Karpman

• Sacred Hoops — Phil Jackson (with Hugh Delehanty)

• Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, & Kaley Warner Klemp

• The Pit (TV Series) — referenced as an analogy for teaching and skill progression

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John continue their mini-series on developing others, widening the lens to explore the deeper mindsets that shape how leaders respond to challenges. Drawing from the model in Conscious Leadership, they unpack the four mindsets—To Me, By Me, Through Me, and As Me—and examine how each one influences the way we navigate difficulty, communicate, and develop the people around us.

The conversation explores how easy it is for leaders to slip into a reactive To Me posture, especially in seasons of uncertainty or self-preservation. From there, they highlight how shifting toward By Me opens the door to agency, responsibility, and creativity—breaking the cycle of blame or helplessness.

Josh and John also reflect on higher levels of leadership consciousness—operating Through Me or As Me—and what it means to move from control to presence, from tension to groundedness, and from reactivity to intentionality. They share personal stories, real-life examples, and moments of self-awareness that reveal the subtle but powerful nature of mindset shifts.

The episode ultimately reminds leaders that developing others begins with developing ourselves. How we interpret our circumstances shapes how we show up, how we listen, and how we build capacity in the people we influence.

1. Most leaders operate in “To Me” more than they realize. This reactive mindset amplifies stress and reduces agency, setting the tone for how we lead and develop others.

2. Shifting to “By Me” unlocks creativity and ownership. The combination of responsibility, curiosity, and intentional choice breaks the Drama Triangle and restores empowerment.

3. “Through Me” and “As Me” represent deeper, grounded presence. These states help leaders move from controlling outcomes to participating in them with clarity and calm.

4. Self-preservation keeps leaders from developing others. When fear, fatigue, or insecurity take over, development gets replaced by protection, avoidance, or withdrawal.

5. Small, consistent reframes create meaningful change. Leaders don’t need enlightenment—they need awareness in the moment and a willingness to take the next small step.

Identify one challenge you’re facing right now—something that feels heavy, unfair, frustrating, or stuck.

• Write down the story you are currently telling yourself about it (the “To Me” version).

• Then choose one small shift toward a “By Me” mindset.

  • What question could you ask?

  • What action is within your control?

  • What perspective could open up agency instead of helplessness?

Keep it small. Keep it honest. Keep it doable.

• Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, Kaley Warner Klemp

• The Drama Triangle — Dr. Stephen Karpman

• The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram

• Sacred Hoops — Phil Jackson (with Hugh Delehanty)

• What About Bob? — Frank Oz (Director)

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John kick off a new mini-series on one of the most essential—and misunderstood—skills of leadership: developing others. Building on their recent conversations about communication and self-awareness, they explore how our intentions to help can sometimes derail growth when we lead from the wrong mindset.

Drawing from the Drama Triangle framework, they unpack three common leadership archetypes that show up under stress: the Persecutor (Villain), the Rescuer (Hero), and the Victim. Each has good intentions but can end up disempowering others, creating dependency, or spreading frustration. Through stories, humor, and reflection, they reveal what’s really happening beneath these patterns and how to shift toward healthier, growth-oriented postures:

• The Challenger (instead of the Persecutor)

• The Coach (instead of the Rescuer)

• The Creator (instead of the Victim)

The episode reframes development as the act of fighting for others’ highest good. It challenges leaders to move from control to empowerment, from rescuing to equipping, and from “woe is me” to “what can we create together?”

1. Awareness is the first act of development. Every leader can slip into the Drama Triangle. The goal isn’t perfection—it’s noticing when it happens and choosing a better response.

2. Persecutors become Challengers. Replace micromanagement and blame with curiosity and accountability. Challenge others to own their growth.

3. Rescuers become Coaches. Stop over-helping. Use questions and patience to guide others toward their own solutions instead of fixing for them.

4. Victims become Creators. Trade helplessness for agency. Acknowledge the challenge, then focus on what’s within your power to move forward.

5. Leadership development is love in action. Great leaders don’t remove struggle—they walk with others through it, building confidence and autonomy along the way.

Reflect on one person you currently lead, coach, or collaborate with.

• Which of the three Drama Triangle tendencies (Persecutor, Rescuer, Victim) do you most often fall into with them?

• What would it look like to flip that pattern this week—by becoming a Challenger, Coach, or Creator instead?

• Notice how that shift changes both your mindset and their engagement.

If you’re not managing people right now, try this reflection with a teammate, family member, or friend. The same dynamics apply everywhere we influence others.

• The Drama Triangle (Stephen Karpman) – the foundational model discussed in this episode.

• Radical Candor by Kim Scott – on the balance between care and challenge (“ruinous empathy” connects to the Rescuer pattern).

• A Failure of Nerve by Edwin H. Friedman – referenced by Josh for its insight on leadership courage and the “non-anxious presence.”

• The 100X Leader by Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram – for the “Sherpa mindset” of fighting for the highest good of others.

In this special episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John welcome their very first guest — Michael Sykes, founder and CEO of Equitable Solutions and author of Easy Equity. Michael brings warmth, wisdom, and candor to a conversation that explores what it truly means to lead from love.

Together, they unpack how leadership begins with self-awareness and healing — and how that inner work ripples outward into teams, organizations, and communities. Michael shares stories from his own journey as a middle manager navigating conflicting expectations, and how mistakes, reflection, and intentionality helped him transform his approach to leadership.

The conversation explores themes of affirmation, mindfulness, and manifestation, inviting leaders to align their “future self” with present actions. Michael challenges the idea that leadership is about control or charisma, instead defining it as removing barriers so others can thrive.

From burnout to belonging, from self-denial to authenticity, this episode reminds us that the most sustainable and equitable leadership starts with loving ourselves well — so we can lead others with compassion, presence, and purpose.

Check out Michael's work at https://equitablesolutions.net/ and follow him on LinkedIn as well. You can find his book Easy Equity for purchase on his site, too.

Key Takeaways Include:

• Leadership is about supporting your team, not just producing results.
• Finding joy requires intentionality and can be found in small moments.
• Authentic relationships are crucial for leveraging team strengths.
• Self-affirmation is key to effective leadership and personal growth.
• Manifestation involves aligning current actions with future goals.
• Emotional intelligence (EQ) is more important than intellectual intelligence (IQ) in leadership.
• Burnout often stems from misalignment with personal values and overextension.
• Leaders should prioritize self-care to avoid resentment and burnout.
• Mistakes are opportunities for growth and should be owned by leaders.
• Creating a positive environment starts with self-love and validation.

In this episode, Josh and John continue their exploration of communication—this time shifting from what we say to how we listen. Building on last week’s focus on the Communication Code, they unpack how defensiveness, distractions, and the pressure to sound competent can quietly sabotage genuine connection. Through personal stories and honest reflection, they explore how slowing down, summarizing, and removing noise are all acts of leadership, not just courtesy.

They discuss the ripple effects of poor listening on trust, culture, and team engagement, and how small changes—like a pause before responding or a quick summary of what you heard—can completely reshape how people experience being led. Together, they reframe listening as a core leadership discipline that drives clarity, confidence, and connection.

Key Takeaways:

• Silence communicates attentiveness and respect.

• Summarizing before responding builds alignment and trust.

• Leaders model active listening by removing distractions and creating space for others’ voices.

Homework for Listeners: Take a few minutes this week to complete a quick Active Listening Audit. Rate yourself 1–5 on each statement and identify one area to strengthen.

1. I let others finish speaking before I respond.

2. I summarize what I heard before offering my view.

3. I ask open-ended questions that deepen understanding.

4. I minimize distractions—no screens, no multitasking.

5. I clarify what the other person needs: empathy or solutions.

6. I pause before speaking to fully process what I’ve heard.

7. I follow up when needed to close the communication loop.

Reflection Prompt: When was the last time you felt truly heard—and what might it take to create that experience for others?

Mentioned in This Episode: The Communication Code – Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram, GiANT Worldwide

In this episode, Josh and John unpack a deceptively simple but powerful truth: communication is both transmission and reception — and most leaders focus too heavily on the former. Drawing from the Communication Codeframework by GiANT Worldwide, they explore how intention, clarity, and receptivity shape every conversation — at work, at home, and in the spaces in between.

They open with reflections on personal rhythms, learning events, and the importance of walking (for knees and for clarity) before diving into the art of setting conditions for effective communication. John shares insights from Simon Sinek’s “Know Your Why” and The Atlantic’s piece on distracted parenting, illustrating how modern distractions erode our ability to truly listen and receive.

Josh introduces the five core intentions of communication — to care, celebrate, critique, clarify, and collaborate — and how naming these purposes can transform meetings, relationships, and team culture. Together, they break down how misalignment between intention and perception can derail trust, and how explicit communication framing helps teams stay connected and emotionally attuned.

• Communication is not complete without both transmission and reception.

• Setting the conditions for communication (minimizing distraction, clarifying intent) is foundational.

• The five communication codes—Care, Celebrate, Critique, Clarify, Collaborate—help leaders name the whybehind what they say.

• Explicitly naming your communication intent improves trust and reduces misinterpretation.

• Celebration and care are often undervalued but essential forms of communication that sustain team health.

In your next team meeting or 1:1, name the type of communication you’re using:

• Are you collaborating, clarifying, or critiquing?

• Are you showing care or celebration?

Use this awareness to align your intent with how others receive it. And for an extra challenge — find a way to intentionally celebrate someone or something this week.

How often do you name your intention before communicating — and how might doing so change the way your message lands?

• Simon Sinek – “Know Your Why” (video clip)

• The Atlantic (2018) – “The Dangers of Distracted Parenting”

• The Communication Code – Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram, GiANT Worldwide

“Your job as a leader isn’t just to say what you mean — it’s to make sure it lands with your team.” – Josh Hugo