In this episode of LEANING INTO THE FIRE: couples therapy conversations, I sit down with Dr. Scott Woolley to explore neurodivergence—especially ADHD—through the lens of Emotionally Focused Therapy. Scott brings both depth and clarity as we unpack how ADHD isn’t just about attention or behavior, but about emotional processing, attachment, and the ways people experience connection. We get into how often ADHD is misunderstood in relationships, and how those misunderstandings can create painful cycles between partners.

Scott does an incredible job breaking down what’s really happening underneath the surface. We talk about how ADHD can show up as inconsistency, missed cues, emotional flooding, or shutdown—and how partners often interpret these as lack of care, when in reality something much more complex is going on. This is where EFT becomes so powerful. Instead of pathologizing, we slow things down and begin to understand the emotional experience of both partners, helping each person feel seen rather than blamed.

We also get into the practical side—what therapists need to pay attention to when working with neurodivergent clients and couples. Scott shares insights from decades of teaching and training therapists around the world, and how to adapt EFT in a way that honors differences in processing, regulation, and communication. We talk about pacing, structure, and how to create enough safety so that both partners can stay engaged in the work, even when things get intense.

What stands out most in this conversation is the sense of hope. When neurodivergence is understood and held with compassion, it stops being “the problem” and instead becomes something couples can navigate together. This episode is about moving out of frustration and into understanding—about helping couples reconnect in a way that actually fits who they are. If you’re a therapist, or someone in a relationship where ADHD plays a role, this one will land.

Dr. Terry Murphy, an Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) trainer and therapist, opens up about the deeply personal journey that unfolded as she prepared to step more fully into her role as a teacher and trainer. What began as a recognition that she needed to stop building outward and start turning inward became what she describes as a “dark night of the soul”—a season of intentionally stepping away from work, achievement, and external identities to discover what remained underneath it all.

Terry shares what happened when she reduced her clinical practice by 75%, stopped taking new clients, paused business coaching and supervision, and created space to simply be. Rather than immediately finding peace, she encountered grief. She revisited childhood narratives, relationships, identity, and the layers she had developed over a lifetime to navigate the world. She describes the experience of peeling those layers away as painful, disorienting, and ultimately transformative.

At the heart of Terry’s story is a powerful question: Who are we when we strip away the roles that tell us who we are? Therapist. Trainer. Mother. Partner. Teacher. When all of those identities were set aside, Terry discovered a deeper sense of simply being—and with it, a renewed understanding of worthiness, self-compassion, boundaries, and connection. She also shares the daily practices that now help her stay grounded, including journaling, meditation, movement, reading, time with loved ones, and protecting space for reflection.

This conversation offers a beautiful look at how personal transformation can reshape the way we care for others. Terry talks about bringing this deeper sense of presence into her work with clients, supervisees, and therapists in training, emphasizing that our compassion for others is incomplete if it doesn't include ourselves. Her story is an invitation to slow down, listen inwardly, and discover what might be waiting beneath the identities and expectations we have accumulated along the way.

In this episode of Leaning Into the Fire: A Podcast About Therapy, I sit down with Dr. Laurie Watson and EFT Trainer Emeritus Jim Thomas to explore Laurie Watson and George Faller’s new book, Brave Love, Great Sex: Harnessing Attachment Theory for Passionate Relationships.

At the heart of the conversation is a powerful idea: a couple’s emotional relationship and sexual relationship are deeply connected—but they don’t always follow the same pattern.

As EFT therapists, we know the pursue-withdraw cycle. One partner reaches for emotional connection while the other pulls away. But Laurie describes how that pattern can actually reverse sexually. The emotional withdrawer may become the sexual pursuer, while the emotional pursuer may become the sexual withdrawer. She calls this the “crisscross” pattern.

That distinction can completely change how we understand couples.

Laurie challenges therapists not to assume that if we repair the emotional bond, the sexual relationship will simply take care of itself. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t. Sex deserves to be talked about directly.

Who reaches sexually? Who pulls away? What does being desired mean to each partner? What happens emotionally when one partner reaches and hears no? And what happens inside the other partner when sexual reaching begins to feel like pressure?

Laurie and Jim encourage therapists to slow these moments down rather than jumping immediately to solutions about frequency, technique, or compromise. Underneath sexual conflict there is often something much more vulnerable.

Jim describes it simply as the “ouch.”

The sexual pursuer may appear demanding, but underneath may be the pain of no longer feeling wanted by the person they love. The sexual withdrawer may appear rejecting, but underneath may be fear, pressure, shame, hurt, or a lack of emotional safety.

Our job isn't to decide who is right. It is to help couples understand the vulnerable experience underneath the positions they have become trapped in.

Jim connects this with Sue Johnson’s description of healthy sexuality as a kind of “safe adventure.” Emotional security can create room for playfulness, risk, exploration, and erotic vulnerability. But Laurie and Jim also emphasize the reverse: positive sexual connection can strengthen the emotional bond.

We also talk about therapists’ own discomfort with sexuality. Jim offers a wonderfully simple suggestion: ask about sexual history the way we ask about attachment history. What did someone learn about sex growing up? What shaped their desire, shame, fear, pleasure, expectations, and sense of safety?

Brave Love, Great Sex follows couples not only through emotional repair but toward what Laurie describes as erotic exploration—helping partners rediscover curiosity, playfulness, vulnerability, and erotic energy once the relationship becomes safer.

Perhaps the simplest idea in the entire conversation is also one of the most important:

Couples are not only attachment partners. They are lovers.

Being unwanted by your lover can hurt at an extraordinarily deep level. Sexual reaching is incredibly vulnerable. And understanding the attachment meaning underneath both sexual pursuit and sexual withdrawal can open a completely different conversation.

This episode is especially relevant for EFT therapists, couples therapists, and sex therapists, but couples themselves will recognize much of their own experience here.

Ultimately, Laurie Watson and George Faller’s Brave Love, Great Sex challenges us not to separate great love from great sex. Emotional security can make erotic exploration possible, and sexual connection can deepen emotional security.

That reciprocal relationship is at the heart of the book—and at the heart of this conversation with Laurie Watson and Jim Thomas.

Hosted by Ed Peterson, LCSW, MBA — Certified Emotionally Focused Therapy Therapist and Supervisor.