Home. Family. Belonging. Love. What does it mean to have a healthy marriage, a healthy family? Gerry Crete and Theresa Robinson join us to explore that question: “What does a thriving marriage and flourishing in family life look like? We bring in Internal Family Systems, attachment theory, perfectionism, the importance of family members delighting in each other, parents’ vows and scripts, how loving children involves more than the will, and the importance of “being with” each other.

Check out Theresa Robinson’s practice, Greenhouse Counselling, here: https://www.greenhousecounselling.com/

And Dr. Gerry Crete’s practice, Transfiguration, is here: https://www.transfiguration.co/

Episode 85 is all about perfectionism: https://youtu.be/bw-zUp2h_TA

Check out our Resilient Catholics Community – the RCC offers structured programming to help orthodox Catholic flourish in life by working on our human formation: https://members.soulsandhearts.com/rcc

If you are a Catholic therapist, coach, spiritual director, priest, or in another role where you accompany others in their human formation, consider the Formation for Formators Community (FFF). The FFF is all about the personal, human formation of the formator, so that you can better receive and give love in how you accompany others. More here: https://members.soulsandhearts.com/fff

And our daily sister podcast, Scripture for Your Inner Outcasts is all about helping our listeners integrate inside, heal from emotional burdens, and grow to flourish in accepting being loved and loving yourself in an ordered way.

https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureForYourInnerOutcasts

Key moments:

0:00 The home and family as a human treasure and source of joy

4:30 The core question for this podcast series

11:10 What does it mean to have a healthy marriage and family?

13:30 The importance of the family, the “domestic church”

21:00 Parts’ expectations for family life – flourishing does not equal perfection

25:00 Dr. Peter was a great parent right out of the gate, but then things got much more real.

25:56 Perfectionism in family life – how “the best is the enemy of the good.” Attachment needs and integrity needs in family life. Dr. Gerry wanted to provide his children everything so that they would be happy.

29:41 Eudaimonia is about a life well-lived, not perfection, a place where children can rest in the security of love

33:30 Unconditional love in the family vs. a focus on “achievement”

36:20 What is flourishing in marriages and family life?

40:42 The importance of joy and delighting in children

45:45 How mothers and fathers can parents from a position of self-protection; the importance of pausing

49:15 Parents’ vows and scripts are often reactions to their experience of their own parents

50:53 Parents often take too much responsibility for their children’s behavior

57:25 Balancing wanting the best for our kids with the need to “let go”

1:00:10 Even heroic acts of the will are not enough in loving children

10:01:30 How understanding parts make family relationships much easier

1:04:20 Self-led parenting

1:05:19 Parts language and family life

1:09:00 How parts work helps with forgiveness in family life

1:18:40 Some reassurances about parenting: how earthy parents are not the primary parents of their children, God’s providence is active

1:19:20 “Being with children” is more important than solving their problems

1:22:30 Reversal with children and identification/counter-identification with parents

1:26:00 Earthly parents are secondary parents, redux. God has a plan for every miscue, every mistake. He's willing to rewrite the family symphony, to take on the bad notes and turn them into good notes in His Providence

1:28:25 Flourishing in a family is about creating an ecology or environment of worth and delight

1:30:20 For each mom to remember that she is a beloved little daughter of God.

Download a PDF of Dr. Amalu’s dissertation: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/8yt9aur8ixed59q/Amalu_Final_Dissertation.pdf/file

His private practice: https://www.deeprenewalpsychotherapy.com/

Dr. Peter Martin’s practice: https://www.immaculateheartcounseling.org/

The CCMMP is here: https://divinemercy.edu/department-integrative-studies/catholic-christian-meta-model-of-the-person-ccmmp/

Dr. Anthony Flood’s book: https://www.cuapress.org/9780813234205/the-metaphysical-foundations-of-love/

Dr. Monty De La Torre’s article on the 8 Cs and virtue: https://www.soulsandhearts.com/blog/8cs-of-ifs-and-their-connection-to-the-virtues/

IIC 169 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM3OcGYDJE8

Summary: Measuring IFS by the gold standard of Catholicity for therapeutic approaches – that’s what Catholic psychologists Christian Amalu, Peter Martin, and Peter Malinoski are exploring today. The Catholic Christian Meta-Model of the Person (CCMMP) by Dr. Paul Vitz, Dr. William Nordling, and Dr. Craig Titus systematizes the 11 essential dimensions of a person that need to be respected in seeking to heal and change. How does IFS stack up to those dimensions? How must it be adapted to be fully Catholic? And how can IFS even inform the CCMMP in some important ways? Join us and find out.

Key moments:

11:55 Dr. Amalu and Dr. Peter meet for the first time..
14:15 The very beginnings of the Catholic Christian Meta-Model of the Person in 2005
17:10 What the CCMMP offers: 1) a true and authentic representation of all of the elements that when put together is the human person; 2) providing a normative framework that defines what a human being ought to be and what flourishing looks like; 3) bringing together a Catholic understanding of philosophy and theology, and grounding psychology in what we know to be true by Divine Revelation
28:30 Dr. Amalu describes his dissertation, evaluating IFS through the lens of the CCMMP, bringing IFS into dialogue with the Catholic Faith.
32:40 How can IFS engage in the Christian project of healing?
40:24 The dissertation can help Catholics understand why they can trust parts and systems approaches, including IFS, with some modifications, which Dr. Amalu lays out
45:19 Catholic virtue from an IFS perspective, bringing in the 8 Cs and the 5 Ps of IFS
51:45 Dr. Richard Schwartz: “The parts are crying out for redemption.”
55:00 How Schwartz stumbled onto a naturalistic religion.
57:50 How IFS helps us not only to love our parts in an ordered way, but to like our parts
59:15 The importance of playfulness and delight. “It’s wonderful that you exist.”
1:03:36 How so many people leave the Catholic Church because they don’t believe it has the answers to the human formation issues that trouble them
1:05:00 Does IFS nuance, extend, or expand any of the premises of the CCMMP? Some limitations of the CCMMP. How IFS and the CCMMP could inform each other. Trauma, the unconscious, parts and systems thinking, and the relationship to self (self-love) are not addressed in the CCMMP. Does IFS nuance any of the premises of the CCMMP?
1:16:51 Progression from self-awareness to self-possession to self-gift as the US Bishops describe.
1:18:50 St. Maximus describes the human person is a microcosm of the cosmos, a small little cosmos within that reflects the entirety of all creation. Humankind is the nexus point of the contact between created reality and the divine. If you do our own internal work, it's going to lift everybody else up in the Mystical Body of Christ, and it will have a positive impact on the rest of the cosmos.
1:23:30 The importance of mercy in whatever model of the human person you use.
1:25:30 What helps all of you to flourish? Including your exiled parts.
1:03:40 Pope Benedict: Healing is an essential dimension of the mission of Christianity. Healing is holiness. “Love each other from an undivided heart.”

Catholics becoming Gods. In this episode, Mother Natalia of the Byzantine Catholic of Christ the Bridegroom Monastery and host of the “What God is Not” podcast discuss theosis (or deification) from an Eastern Catholic perspective, bringing in parts and systems thinking. Join us for a fascinating, rollicking conversation about this most important topic.

Mother Natalia’s podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@whatgodisnotpodcast

Praying with Parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OZ6e6zAMb4

Mother Natalia’s Riding Your Hot Mess Express to Heaven talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BtvYRfBChc

Check out Dr. Peter and Chris Stefanick on parts work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSWuvRg5csU&t=1468s

The Resilient Catholics Community is open to new members in June! Check it out: https://soulsandhearts.com/rcc

Catholic Parts Work in Human Formation will be on the evening of June 10, 2026 at 8:00 PM to 9:30 PM Eastern – register here https://members.soulsandhearts.com/Catholic-parts-work

A retreat for Catholic formators, August 10-13, 2026 on “Authentic Being and Authentic Relating.” https://members.soulsandhearts.com/formators-retreat-registration-for-2026

Key moments in this episode

9:40 Theosis or deification as understood as “becoming God” in the Eastern Catholic Church, and how theosis is becoming more and more one with God.

15:00 What is the impact or effect of theosis on our parts? How parts can be transfigured

19:20 Human formation deficits and inner fragmentation can keep us from theosis, from becoming one with God. The concept of “involuntary sin” in the Eastern Catholic Church.

28:11 Starting with what health looks like, how the fall affects us, and the effects manifested in spiritual illnesses – allowing all of our parts to heal and be deified.

31:29 Evagrius insists that our desires are inherently good, but can become twisted

33:00 Are different parts of a person experiencing different degrees of union with God at the same time?

38:01 Jesus seeks out the less desirable members of society – the poor, lame, sick, lepers, the tax collectors, etc. Does God seek out the exiles first, seeking to redeem them? Does God bypass the innermost self to reach the exiled parts? How inner unity is needed for parts to be close to God.

48:45 The difference between essence and energies in Eastern Catholic thought with St. Maximus the Confessor

54:20 “Nepsis” or watchfulness

1:00:30 Is nepsis about being watchful inwardly and outwardly? Impulses come from parts which are already in the heart, as opposed to temptation, which originates outside the person.

1:06:30 An example of nepsis or watchfulness and parts from monastic life about a part feeling unseen

1:15:01 A model of working with parts in ways similar to working with little children. With an example from Mother Natalia’s life.

1:19:15 Cutting or self-mutilation as an example of trying to find the good desire within a maladaptive impulse. Seeking causes underneath the symptom

1:30:00 Mother Natalia’s practical takeaway – we are so steeped in our culture’s obsession with productivity and take a functional view of prayer – what can prayer provide us, for some specific good. But we need to go to prayer to “be with” God and be in His presence.

1:33:45 Dr. Gerry’s practical takeaway on prayer is to get a cat, because his cat Nebula, helps him to slow way down and stop being so busy in prayer.

1:35:45 Parts’ desire for theosis is heavily dependent on their God images – patience and kindness and gentleness with parts, and how parts need to experience love from other relationships first

1:39:15 The Holy Spirit is unafraid to approach us even when we are still impure, and one of the mistakes we make is that we believe that we need to get to a particular place in order to encounter God.

Deification: A secret in the Catholic Church that really shouldn’t be a secret. Join Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr Matthew Tsakanikas, professor of theology at Christendom College, and Dr. Peter for a wide-ranging discussion of the glory, the adventure, the awe of partaking of God’s divine nature with the entirety of our being – our hearts, souls, minds, bodies, innermost selves, and all our parts, from a perspective informed by Internal Family Systems and grounded in a Catholic anthropology and metaphysics. What does it really mean for all of you to be a beloved little son or beloved little daughter of God?

Books by Dr. Matthew Tsakanikas:

2025 A Catechesis on Deification, Transfiguration & the Luminous Mysteries: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DX1HZMLM/

2026 Meditations on Deification and the Luminous Mysteries: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0GWVYQGPP

Check out our sister podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureForYourInnerOutcasts

The Resilient Catholics Community is about to reopen for new members in June. If you are a Catholic who wants to overcome the natural level obstacles to sharing deeply in God's divine nature as his beloved little son or beloved little daughter, and are into parts and systems thinking, consider applying to the RCC at www.soulsandhearts.com/rcc.

Online Workshop for those Catholic Formators new to IFS, “Catholic Parts Work in Human Formation” will be on June 10, 2026 from 8:00 PM to 9:30 PM Eastern, register at https://members.soulsandhearts.com/Catholic-parts-work

The Formation for Formators Retreat is August 10-13, 2026 in Bloomington Indiana. The theme is “Authentic Being and Authentic Relating.” This retreat focuses on you finding and loving you in more of your parts, including parts you have not yet encountered – your exiles – more at www.soulsandhearts.com/FFF

Conversation Hours with Dr. Peter are every Tuesday and Thursday from 4:30 PM to 5:30 PM Eastern Time on his cell at 317.567.9594 – it’s an opportunity to discuss themes from this podcat or any of the materials generated by Souls and Hearts.

Key Moments

12:00 What is deification/theosis/divinization? Being made a son or daughter of God means sharing in God’s nature.

15:00 Ephesians chapter 1 reveals God’s plan from before the foundation of the world to makes us sons in the Son.

16:52 Dr. Gerry’s objections to the IFS conceptualization of “Self”

21:01 The image of God within us is dynamic – the “capax Dei”

21:50 How Adam and Eve lost their interior integration with the Fall and how Jesus opens the way for re-integration.

27:05 Satan to Adam and Eve “Ye shall become like gods….”

30:30 How do we receive the love of God?

34:20 The internal battle: “Parts of me are drawn to receive God’s love and parts of me are not…”

41:19 The necessity of entering into a loving relationship with Jesus for interior integration

43:40 God’s wills that you flourish in all domains and in all your parts

48:40 Divinization and the human body

53:00 Divinization is “too hot to handle” for many Christians – but it’s the essential framework for all of the Catholic life, it’s the essential story that holds all the other stories.

1:02:00 The importance of accepting all of my parts as they are right now. God accepts all parts as they are, so I need to as well. Acceptance of a part does not mean endorsing that part’s disordered desires, impulses, and emotions

1:08:35 Sometimes parts find it easier to tolerate being loved by someone other than God at first, and that lesser loves can help parts open up to God’s direct love

1:25:01 Dr. Tsakanikas’ key takeaway: Love makes the lover want to make the beloved equal to himself,

1:26:28 Dr, Gerry’s takeaway: It’s important for us to evangelize each of our own parts

1:27:54 Dr. Peter’s takeaway: Real love is given freely. But in our fallen human states, in our fallen human condition, it's not received without a cost to our parts.

Moral theologian Fr. Thomas Berg and philosopher and therapist Dr. Andrea Messineo take on the topic of personal conscience and parts work through a Catholic lens. We explore the relationships among conscience, parts, the innermost self, the intellect, the will, impulses, and desires. We address concupiscence and parts, and offer specific examples. Join us for a fascinating exploration of conscience and parts.

Check out these other episodes:

https://youtu.be/bw-zUp2h_TA

https://youtu.be/f5MNCaCJLyc

https://youtu.be/Isxmlx8pQAs

Dr. Peter’s advanced group for Catholic formators: Relating Wholeheartedly with God in Prayer, Mondays from 10:00 AM to 11:30 AM Eastern starting on March 9, 2026. Find out more here: https://members.soulsandhearts.com/registration

Dr. Gerry’s advanced group for Catholic formators: Surviving, Healing, Thriving, and Flourishing - A Path To Greater Integration Wednesdays from 10:00 AM to 11:30 AM Eastern, starting on March 11, 2026

Fr. Thomas Berg’s books:

Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hurting-in-the-church-fr-thomas-berg/1124597873

Choosing Forgiveness: Unleash the Power of God's Grace: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-forgiveness-fr-thomas-berg/1140395384?ean=9781681926537

Dr. Andrea Messineo’s book, Alone in Church: https://www.amazon.com/ALONE-CHURCH-Andrea-Messineo/dp/1732054290

Check out Dr. Messineo’s website at andreamessineolpcc.com

Key moments:

16:15 What are the relationships among one's innermost self, one's parts, and one's conscience?

21:25 St. Thomas Aquinas’ emphasis on prudence

23:30 How parts with emotions have a role in a well-formed conscience and the innermost self does not have a “localized omniscience.”

31:30 What are the relationships among parts and the faculties of the intellect and the will?

37:00 Parts are closely connected with impulses and desires, driving agendas

40:00 What about addictions, obsessions, and compulsions?

45:40 Can a person possess a virtue, but parts of that person not have access to that virtue?

56:20 Does the innermost self need any formation from others, or is it complete, as Richard Schwartz maintains?

1:08:00 Causal chains that lead to morally problematic behaviors

1:17:20 What is concupiscence and does it always need to be lodged in a part?

Catholic philosopher Dr. Andrea Messineo and moral theologian Fr. Thomas Berg guide us in moral reasoning from a parts perspective, grounded in Alasdair MacIntyre’s Thomistic thought. Join us as we romp through understanding the development of moral reasoning informed by IFS, “values clarification”, Winnicott’s object relations model, the importance of unblending and recollection for clarity in moral reasoning, the necessity of dependence on others, the proper use and the misuse of penance and mortification, how accepting a part does not mean endorsing that part’s impulses and desires, and so much more.

Fr. Thomas Berg’s books:

Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hurting-in-the-church-fr-thomas-berg/1124597873

Choosing Forgiveness: Unleash the Power of God's Grace: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-forgiveness-fr-thomas-berg/1140395384?ean=9781681926537

Dr. Andrea Messineo’s book “Alone in Church”: https://www.amazon.com/ALONE-CHURCH-Andrea-Messineo/dp/1732054290 Check out Dr.

Messineo’s website at Andreamessineolpcc.com

If you want to flourish in loving God, your neighbor, and yourself, with other Catholics in a structured program informed by Internal Family Systems and grounded in a Catholic worldview, check out the Resilient Catholics Community here: https://soulsandhearts.com/rcc and check out our informational video here: https://vimeo.com/1160648485/1d2c052338?fl=ip&fe=ec

New groups are forming for Catholic formators – counselors, coaches, spiritual directors, priests, and others who individually accompany others in their formation are welcome to join our Formation for Formators community. Details are here: https://soulsandhearts.com/fff

You need to love yourself properly to love others in an ordered way. How can we understand St. Thomas Aquinas' insistence on us governing our passions from an IFS perspective in a way that loves our passionate parts? How can we be detached from worldly goods? Do saints get blended with their parts? Are there benefits to some kinds of blending with parts? How can we frame the Theology of the Body to resonate more with women's concerns? How can we consider both errors of commission vs. errors of omission in parts work? What about the importance of mercy, the centrality of love, the requirement of interior integration in for human formation through an Internal Family Systems lens, grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person? Join Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr. Peter Martin, and Dr. Peter Malinoski take these questions and more in this episode with a live audience.