The world feels like it's on fire. So what do we do besides doomscroll?

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with author and activist Paul Loeb to talk about his updated classic, The Impossible Will Take a Little While. In the wake of the Seattle Center shooting, and in the middle of authoritarian creep, climate chaos, and collective exhaustion, Loeb makes the case that hope isn't wishful thinking. It's a practice. A discipline. A choice to act anyway. From South Africa to South Korea, from political prisoners to everyday organizers, this conversation is a reminder that history has always been changed by ordinary people who refused to accept that the future was already written. If you're looking for a reason to keep fighting without losing your joy, this episode is for you.

Mentioned in the episode:

Marcus's Column | Renee Hopkins episode | Alliance for Gun Responsibility | The Impossible Will Take a Little While, by Paul Loeb | Archbishop Desmond Tutu | Wendell Berry: The Peace of Wild Things | Minnesota Proved MAGA Wrong | How the Word is Passed, by Clint Smith | MLK: Letter from a Birmingham Jail | theimpossible.org | Schmitz Park | Missouri ends felon disenfranchisement |

Follow Paul Loeb:

https://paulloeb.substack.com/ | theimpossible.org

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

What if the same government that can find billions for a war in a matter of months insists there's never enough money to feed a hungry kid or keep a school library stocked?

Marcus and Nora sit down with Jesse Hagopian — Seattle educator, Rethinking Schools editor, and author of Teach Truth: The Struggle for Antiracist Education — to follow the money from the Pentagon to the classroom. Jesse traces the fight against book bans and "anti-CRT" laws sweeping the country, and grounds it in his own history: teaching in an underfunded DC classroom, then at his alma mater, Garfield High, where keeping snacks in a desk drawer became part of the job. He connects Seattle's fight for universal school meals to the legacy of the Black Panther Party's Free Breakfast for Children Program, and James Baldwin's claim that "the children are all ours." On the heels of an all-too-tough fight for school meals in one of the wealthiest cities in the world, Hagopian shows us that "there's no money" has always been a ruse, not a fact.

In the middle of recording this episode, Seattle's fight for universal school meals actually won. Jesse walks through how that happened: years of students, parents, and teachers showing up, organizing, and refusing to accept austerity as the final word. It's a blueprint for hope in tough times.

Mentioned in the episode:

Guest Rant: Seattle Can't Afford Not to Feed Every Child | Teach Truth: The Struggle for Antiracist Education | July 21 City Council Meeting |

More from Jesse Hagopian:

https://iamaneducator.com/

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

What if we've been asking the wrong question all along? Instead of waiting for institutions that are failing us to finally come to the rescue, what if our real survival has always depended on each other? This week, Dean Spade returns to the podcast to join Nora and Marcus for a timely conversation about the newly updated edition of Mutual Aid. Together they unpack why mutual aid isn't charity but a practice of solidarity, resistance, and collective power with a long and radical history. From authoritarianism and democratic backsliding to climate disruption and collapsing public institutions, Spade argues that the way through this moment isn't individual resilience or hoping for our institutions to save us, but communities learning to organize, care for one another, and build the relationships that make a different future possible. If you've been wondering what hope looks like in hard times, this conversation offers something more powerful: a roadmap for action.

Mentioned in the episode:

ICE Murders | Detention Center Deaths | Mutual Aid | Love in a F*cked Up World [book] and [podcast] | Five Questions for Cultivating Solidarity | In Defense of Looting | Tiny Gardens Everywhere | Death Panel Podcast | Love in a Fucked up World: Resentment | An Unquiet Mind | 2025 Andrew Carnegie Fellow: Nora Kenworthy

Follow and Support Dean's work:

Dean Spade - Patreon

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.