Most SaaS founders pay attention to churn, but beneath the surface of a good or bad churn number, many important details are missed.

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down the real story behind churn. What the numbers do and don't tell you and how to dig deeper to uncover the patterns driving customer retention (or loss).

From understanding net revenue retention to running effective churn interviews, this is the ultimate primer on diagnosing and solving churn for your SaaS.

Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

Links:

• DemandMaven
• ProfitWell
• ChurnKey
• ChartMogul

• (00:01:30) - Why a 5% churn rate may not be as healthy as you think.
• (00:03:55) - How do you measure churn? And getting detailed with qualified vs. unqualified churn and why you need to measure both.
• (00:06:05) - How to set up onboarding to keep track of qualified vs. unqualified churn.
• (00:07:30) - Understanding cohort-based churn and net revenue retention (NRR).
• (00:09:19) - How to interpret NRR and what benchmarks really mean.
• (00:13:35) - Why getting into segmented NRR is valuable.
• (00:16:30) - Churn is nuanced. If you are looking at a monthly churn number, you could be missing the bigger picture.
• (00:17:00) - If you collect cancellation reasons, you may miss the real reasons your customers are churning.
• (00:21:15) - How to conduct effective churn interviews (with participants who will actually attend) and the churn matrix: qualified/unqualified vs. activated/inactivated.
• (00:26:45) - What churn interviews can reveal: product confusion, missing features, poor product marketing.
• (00:27:30) - Product management issues that can come up in churn interviews.
• (00:31:15) - How to pre-select who to interview to give yourself the best chance of finding meaningful insights.
• (00:35:00) - Why churned customers are more talkative than trial users.
• (00:37:05) - What good churn research uncovers: acquisition, pricing, activation, product gaps.

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim take a deep dive into one of the most overlooked revenue levers in SaaS: activation.

They walk through their activation playbook, breaking down how to define activation for your product and sharing tactical strategies for improving onboarding experiences.

Whether you're PLG or sales-assisted, this episode offers clear steps to uncover where users get stuck and how to fix it.

Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

Links:

• DemandMaven
• UserInterviews.com
• Respondent.io
• Product-Led Onboarding by Ramli John
• Samuel Hulick
• UserOnboard
• Reforge

• (00:00:55) - Why most founders overlook activation, and why that’s a huge mistake.
• (00:02:25) - What activation actually means and how to define it for your SaaS.
• (00:03:30) - Trial-to-paid is not the only way to think about activation, and may be missing a big part of the story.
• (00:06:15) - How to discover activation metrics using a new user retention report.
• (00:12:30) - Why session recordings fall short and what to use instead.
• (00:14:35) - The power of UX interviews and how to run them properly.
• (00:23:00) - What to watch for in interviews: pauses, furrowed brows, and “it was easy” lies.
• (00:25:55) - Looking for friction and where people get stuck.
• (00:27:30) - How to map your onboarding flow and prioritize product fixes once you've done UX interviews.
• (00:30:30) - Why valuable activation work can fail in organizations where there isn't a clear decision maker (avoiding the problems of compromise land)
• (00:33:45) - How does activation change in product led vs. sales led organizations?
• (00:38:15) - Onboarding for high complexity products.
• (00:43:45) - Book and other recommendations for mastering activation.
• (00:51:30) - A final reminder about survivor bias. Remember that just because your customers made it, does not mean that your onboarding activation is perfect.

One of the biggest pain points for first-time founders is a lack of structure within their business. One of the most popular frameworks for quickly creating structure is the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS), but does it really live up to the hype?

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim do a deep dive into EOS. They break down its key components, where it works (and where it doesn’t), and why most founders should treat it more like a toolbox than a strict rulebook.

Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

Links:

• DemandMaven
• EOS Worldwide
• Traction by Gino Wickman - the book introducing EOS

• (00:00:25) - Rediscovering campaign anxiety.
• (00:06:00) - EOS overview: what it is and why a client recently reached out asking about it.
• (00:11:00) - “Right person, right seat” explained.
• (00:15:45) - Issues tracking.
• (00:20:00) - Where EOS can fall apart for small teams.
• (00:29:30) - The parts of EOS that Asia likes and uses.
• (00:32:00) - Rocks vs. OKRs: what’s the difference and when does it matter?
• (00:39:15) - SOPs vs. “The Way”: document your processes, whatever you call them.
• (00:42:15) - When are core values useful and when are they just performative?
• (00:52:00) - Picking and choosing from EOS: take what works, leave the rest.