In this episode, we turn our attention to policy makers and citizen groups' persistent distaste for growth, and confusion around managing it intelligently. And all over the US, albeit the world, there is a tug of war between those who live in a place and those who want to live in a place with each believing they hold virtue over the other. With NC assumed to become the seventh most populated state in the country by 2030, leaning in is a prerequisite to resolving our issues. That's why we're thrilled to welcome our guest Aaron Houck, a land use attorney at Robinson Bradshaw, who specializes in assisting his clients with zoning and entitlement endeavors and has some fascinating opinions about both sides of the argument. But he's also someone who is questioning the human tenues that block our ability to flourish.

So, what dogmas are fueling the grumblers who stand between us the right answers? Aaron reminds us that just because you're in the room doesn't mean you get to make all the decisions. And he brings up the point that although a city's outcome should be influenced by local citizens having what he calls, "a voice, a veto and a vote", we don't think about the people wo aren't in the room and are being denied all three. These are the folks who will need a home next year, or after school in 5 years, or when they're transferred here in 10 years. What will they find? Will they forever be the reason existing residents groan in distaste?

It is these ideas and more that light up the airwaves on our current Getting Real with Rob podcast. It's a conversation about how to see things on a larger stage and increase our peripheral view. It is about helping our elected leaders and neighborhood groups understand the economic and behavioral nuances that must be addressed. Otherwise, we're stuck in anger. That's neither democracy nor leadership.

By way of background, Aaron Houck brings to his profession an intricate set of skills and insights. His family moved to Charlotte when he was eight years old, he is a proud graduate of Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools, having attended Newell Elementary School, J.T. Williams Middle School, and Independence High School. And he went to Davidson College, where he double-majored in economics and political science, served as co-editor-in-chief of The Davidsonian, and played on the scouting squad for the women's basketball team. He then braved the cold, darkness of Cambridge, Massachusetts, for three years at Harvard Law School before returning to Charlotte to work as a real estate attorney at Robinson Bradshaw. He left the practice of law to pursue a Ph.D. in political science at Duke University, and he taught for seven years at Queens University of Charlotte, where he was a tenured professor in the Political Science Department. He subsequently boomeranged back to Robinson Bradshaw.

Where it gets fascinating is when Aaron's career as a lawyer and a political scientist was fueled by an interest in how cities work (and why they don't). At Queens University of Charlotte, he taught a course on the "Politics of Urban Design" that included taking a group of students to Barcelona. As a land use attorney, he helps his clients navigate rezoning and entitlement processes.

Aaron and his wife, Pearl, have two kids. They live in the Elizabeth neighborhood. They enjoy college sports and spending time in the North Carolina mountains.

Listen now to this episode!

A veteran of nearly every discipline in home building, our podcast guest Dan Puvak, Operations Partner—Architectural & Estimating Services at True Homes in Monroe, NC reminds us that unpacking the intricacies of building a home is something relatively few understand. He would love to see more narratives dig deeper into the facts and details so the public can become educated about its elegance and importance to our economy and our communities. Sharing his views on how the UDO, even in its imperfect form, can help create predictability and therefore efficiency in planning and execution of developments, he also explained that the UDO parameters are often discarded in favor of neighborhood groups who push against agreed upon ordinances in favor of popularity-driven opinions. And the problem intensifies when decisions are made without considering the missing voices of those who will be the future members of a community. "There are too many who make decisions based on sentiment, and not facts. We're not considering how the vetted data is already showing us who is moving here, where the jobs are, the needed traffic planning, and what kind of product these future neighbors need and want." He points out that these same loud voices sway elected officials to constantly question and change existing policy, dramatically changing the metrics of cost and design. Along with cooperative dialog during the entitlement and approval process, he insists that data about schools, traffic, engineering, and forward planning should be respected as the first way to inform development planning strategies.

As we dug deeper into how the mechanics of home building can become more efficient the conversation naturally moved towards AI. Dan overwhelmingly agreed that any design models loaded into AI must first be a reflection of exceptional planning, innovation, and a clear vision. Then AI can cull through and tighten processes or planning, resulting in a better end product for the company and the customer.

Dan, by way of responsibilities with True Homes, influences nearly every decision within the company. He unifies architecture, estimating, and BIM into one operating system that speeds product launches, improves cost accuracy, and protects margin. He leads new product development, cost modeling, pricing and margin management, and the technical standards that keep offerings scalable. He's pushing building technologies that turn models into business data—specifically a BIM backbone that generates purchase orders directly, links options to the supply chain, and delivers first-time-right takeoffs at scale.

He is quick to point out that he started his career at the first rung, working for a builder by sweeping out and punching-out homes, which is why he insists every model of execution reflect field reality. After becoming a corporate leader, he has committed to giving back and has served for years as a judge for NAHB's four-year student competition. Mentoring the next generation of homebuilding professionals is a priority and a privilege, and he finds the work genuinely rewarding.

Torrey Feimster is championing efforts that pave pathways to accelerated generational wealth through homeownership, thereby helping to close the widening wealth gap. Torrey chatted with Rob Nanfelt about the nuances of this benevolent mission, but it's clear this is a personal passion for Torrey in addition to a mission for good. Previously, Torrey served as Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at GEM Investments (GEM), a $ 12 billion+ OCIO, where he advanced diversity initiatives and participated in the development of GEM's proprietary impact investing framework, which includes a racial and social equity scoring model. Ascension, incubated within GEM, continues to benefit from this strategic partnership while operating independently.

But the roadmap being put into place by Ascension's leaders and public/private partners has a list of incredible milestones they intend to hit within the next 6 years. Like delivering over 600 mixed-income houses with a significant portion in the attainable housing price range. He is quick to emphasize that Ascension's holistic approach to community economic development prioritizes both housing attainability and financial education, ensuring that all residents can have the opportunity to thrive. Discovering the algorithm that will bring this mission to life is why you need to listen to the entire podcast!

"By investing in diverse-price point housing developments, offering educational empowerment programs in financial literacy, and fostering community economic development initiatives, we aim to create vibrant, mixed-income communities where everyone has access to quality housing and opportunities for economic advancement." According to the Ascension website. It goes on to state that they're reshaping the narrative on affordable housing in Charlotte by prioritizing sustainable homeownership over traditional rental solutions. While many focus solely on providing affordable rental units, they believe that true empowerment comes from owning a home. By offering affordable homes for purchase, we're not only addressing the immediate need for housing but also fostering long-term stability and generational wealth within our communities.

As is the case with our podcast, we enter the interview with our lighting round questions that inevitably strike gold in revealing the character-shaping events and choices that have shaped our guest. Torrey gives us a glimpse into what drives him, and therefore what is catalyzing the forward movement with Ascension. And it should be noted that the partners in this endeavor include Kingdom Development Partners guided by James Scruggs, a guest who graced our podcast booth in 2024.

In the past, Torrey has served as Assistant to the President and Director of Corporate Relations at Johnson C. Smith University and was Publisher at PRIDE Magazine, Charlotte's premier African American lifestyle publication. He has served on the Board of Directors of the Greater Charlotte Cultural Trust, an organization that provides endowment management and investment expertise to build and grow permanent funds for arts, science, and history organizations in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg community. He received a B.A. in Speech, Communication, and Rhetoric from Wake Forest University, a Certificate in Capital Markets from the Kenan-Flagler Business School at UNC-Chapel Hill, and a Certified Diversity Professional Designation from the ILR School at Cornell University.

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/104214/homeownership-is-affordable-housing.pdf

"You can have an impact!" states Sagar Rathie as he deftly handled our questions from host Rob Nanfelt. As our latest podcast guest, he approached the interview with enthusiasm and a plan. Immediately endearing and always prepared, Sagar has made a meteoric rise in the commercial development industry here in Charlotte. He also calls himself a bit of a Renaissance man but also stated that one of the mobile apps he couldn't live without is his GPS (…so he knows where he's going!). Then he explained how, given a choice between being the smartest person in the room or the funniest, he would choose to be funny. Cementing our impression of him as a man who balances discipline and structure, with sheer persuasion.

Schooled as an engineer, his focus for NAIOP in 2025 and beyond is establishing a robust advocacy connection between Charlotte's commercial industry and our representatives at the state level. Moved deeply by the magic that happens when a concept and dream of a development becomes tangible and real, he is also committed to helping those even younger than him get a start in the commercial industry with a good mix of wonder and dedication to engagement.

Here's more information about our podcast guest:

Sagar Rathie joined Crescent Communities in 2016 and currently serves as Managing Director, Office for the Commercial division. He leads all aspects of the Company's office acquisitions and developments throughout the Southeast and Southwest, with an active investment and pipeline development portfolio totaling 2.5 million SF and representing $1.3 billion in capital deployed. Sagar is responsible for sourcing, entitling, designing, financing, and executing on new and value-add office and mixed-use developments across the Carolinas, Georgia, Tennessee, Central Florida, Texas, and Arizona.

Sagar has extensive capital markets experience, having collectively raised nearly $4.0 billion in third party equity and debt throughout his career. Previously, he was Crescent Communities' Director of Corporate Finance and Investor Relations, where he played an integral role in the company's financial forecasting and planning efforts, assisted with the investment committee process, and led numerous strategic initiatives for the company. Prior to Crescent Communities, Sagar was in Investment Banking with Piper Sandler, and a Manager at GlaxoSmithKline.

He currently serves on the Board of Trustees for Discovery Place, President for the NAIOP Charlotte Chapter, active with ULI as a member of the Capital Markets Committee, a recent graduate of Leadership Charlotte, and heavily involved with the community.

Sagar received his master's in business administration from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, master's in engineering from Duke University, and Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Engineering also from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

We thought long and hard about the first few lines of our editorial for this podcast, in the hopes we'd successfully ignite some curiosity with our audience. It was decided that leading with "Tax Talk" might not be the hook needed. But after our interview with Bobbi Jo Lazarus, Shareholder with Elliott Davis, we changed our minds. Because spending 25 minutes on this podcast is going to be more entertaining and interesting than you would think. And extremely (yes, extremely) educational. In a short amount of time, we unpacked the top elements of the new implications of the Big Beautiful Bill with the addition of perspectives about its place in the landscape of previous bills. Bobbi Jo mentions she feels this work is like 'solving a puzzle' and you need to 'always think ahead.' In our opinion, no one should make a move in the tax world without a professional like Bobbi Jo.

In addition to her deep knowledge of her craft, Bobbi Jo is the incoming Charlotte NAIOP President. She is a driving force in their initiative around amplifying the boots on the ground voices at the state level. The goal is to establish a coalition that can generate real-time discussions with lawmakers and get more traction around 'what happens next' planning. And with the passing of The Big Beautiful Bill, there is so much to parse through, especially as the guidance needed to implement these new laws trickles in. A translator is surely needed.

Our GRWR lighting round, clearly one of our guests' favorite parts of the interview, gave us a glimpse into what makes Bobbi Jo tick. She's transparent and funny. Articulate and engaging. Confident and competent. You're listening and laughing and nodding for so much of the interview that you don't even realize that we're talking about …yes…Tax Talk. Just click "listen" and learn for yourself.

Bobbi Jo's Professional Bio:

With over 20 years of experience, Bobbi Jo Lazarus has established herself as a respected leader within the real estate industry. Utilizing a forward-thinking approach, her expertise extends beyond advisory and tax services, as she consistently delivers value-added solutions supported by the full capabilities of Elliott Davis's real estate and consulting teams. Her impact is marked by a strong commitment to staying ahead of regulatory changes and market dynamics, ensuring customers remain competitive in an ever-evolving landscape.

As the previous Real Estate Industry Specialty Group leader, she spearheaded initiatives to align customer needs with team strengths, resulting in higher satisfaction and measurable business impact. Bobbi Jo's influence also extends into the non-profit sector, where she has demonstrated exceptional leadership and service, including executive roles supporting organizations focused on real estate development, emergency management, and advocacy. Her ability to navigate complex challenges and foster collaboration has driven success across both corporate and non-profit initiatives, ensuring sustainable growth and positive impact.

Education, Credentials and Special Training

Certified Public Accountant

B.S., Accounting with an Economics minor, Plymouth State University

Civic & Community Activities

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Foundation Board, Treasurer

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Emergency Management Type III All Hazards Incident Management Team, Member

Hopeway, Advisory Board Member

Leadership Charlotte, Class 44

Professional Affiliations

NAIOP Charlotte, President-Elect

NAIOP, Tax Policy Committee Member

NAIOP Nashville

Women Executives of Charlotte

Charlotte Regional Business Alliance

Urban Land Institute

CREW Charlotte - Past National Delegate, Past President

American Institute of Certified Public Accountants

North Carolina Association of Certified Public Accountants

Awards

Charlotte Business Journal Women in Business Award Recipient 2025

Career Mastered Emerging Leader Award Recipient 2018

Charlotte Business Journal 40 Under 40 Award Recipient 2016

Mecklenburg Times 50 Most Influential Women Award Recipient 2015

NCACPA Women to Watch, Emerging Leader 2014

CREW Charlotte, Sponsor of the Year 2012

Business Leader Women Extraordinaire, Award Recipient 2011

CREW Charlotte, New Member of the Year 2010

This month on Getting Real with Rob, we welcome West Charlotte schoolmates Rodney Faulkner and William Haygood III, founders and partners with Boundary Street Advisors here in Charlotte. Established in 2018, this full-service commercial real estate firm is dedicated to some pretty big, bold ideas when it comes to commercial development. And because of that, Rodney, an alumnus of Appalachian State University and William, an alumnus of University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill helped us record an episode that inspires just as much as it informs.

Boundary Street Advisors is nothing if not committed to economic and cultural expansion. They love and celebrate everything about Charlotte. A powerhouse of financial acumen tempered by friendship and faith, their company is named after the street that used to mark the edges of the thriving Black business and residential community of Charlotte, Boundary Street, which is now tucked in and around the southwest loop of the I-277. But that's just a tip of what inspires them.

Let's start with the term, "Lean in." Words Rodney and William believe are the key to the way we should approach every venture. They see our region as a landscape of people and businesses that are knitted together like a beautiful quilt. Even though those are simple terms, they take very seriously the idea of insisting that we define our city's targets for the future, not just have them. Additionally, they believe you should "Lean in" to expansion, to the arts, to transportation, and especially to small businesses.

They also believe that it isn't the organizations that move us forward, it's the people in those organizations. "Who's being loud?" Was the question posed by Rodney when we asked him what REBIC can do to help. "What are each of your individual members doing to help?" And with that, we see why these gentlemen are conspicuously unique and refreshing.

Another fascinating response surfaced when we inquired about their strategy to bring more collaboration to the table between developers and policy makers. Wherein they suggested we need a commonsense committee to help us get to the right things; an overlay of friends and caring experts for each development on the table, who can help resolve burdensome and illogical regulations that are preventing something positive from happening.

They also boldly shared what they feel is missing in planning, zoning laws, and developer perception, stating their best advice is to simply ask a policy maker or staff member to lunch and get to know them. "Reach out your hand, Rob." Rodney invited, and then they shook hands. "I just gave you a gift. We are now friends." That kind of personal approach is what they feel is their 'secret sauce.'

Listen to this interview now!

Michael Foess (pronounced Fess) is a highly accomplished executive leader with over 25 years of experience in engineering, development, and project management. He is serving as the REBIC Board President of 2025 and brings with him a packed agenda for progress. It is during this episode that he shares his deeper visions for REBIC and for members of the entire Real Estate community.

Within the context of regulatory and growth push-back as key elements bogging down housing affordability momentum, Michael sees the way forward by using human strategies as much as a logistic one. With an admission of the missteps taken by policy makers he places the pivotal responsibility for improvement on the shoulders of leaders in our industry. And encourages them to explore the effectiveness of creating a more open and cooperative atmosphere at all levels of negotiation and entitlement. Reinforcing the idea that neighbors, policy makers and elected officials are all fellow share holders in a new development, he parses through the rhetoric and brings the narrative straight back to us. The interview here is a fascinating dialog that leaves no room for confusion and makes progress tactile: Be better at communicating the why, communicating the process, and then really listen.

In addition to these human agendas, Michael takes a long look at the positive side of the sweeping changes AI will make in our world, especially its effects on our industry. And encourages us all to meet the moment so we can use this tool wisely and urgently as we envision a more efficient future for development.

By way of background, Michael has a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering from Michigan State University and a Master of Science in Engineering Management from the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, NC. He is a registered Professional Engineer and licensed general contractor in North Carolina and is a certified Project Management Professional (PMP).

Michael is currently on the Board of Directors for the Home Builders Association of Greater Charlotte and the 2025 Chair for REBIC's Board of Directors. He is also a subcommittee member for the National Home Builders Association's Subcommittee on Land Use Policy and the past Chair, Land Development Council for the Home Builders Association of Greater Charlotte.

As the Founding Executive of Montrose LLC, a real estate development consulting firm providing tailored portfolio management, program management, and project management services to developers, builders, investors, and family offices. Montrose is currently managing the entitlement and development of 2,761 residential lots, 3 commercial projects, and a beach front resort community in Central America.

Mr. Foess' achievements include successfully launching an in-house land development platform for a privately held, regional builder, entitling, developing, and delivering 6,645 single-family lots across in four years. Michael has also successfully delivered more than 16 commercial and industrial development projects, including a 152,000 ft² retail center and the most advanced automated mixed materials recovery facility on the east coast.

A little-known fact about the important role played by UNC Charlotte in helping the city to attract large industries and corporations is its status as an R1 University (according to the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education), meaning is a doctoral-granting institution with the highest level of research activity. It cannot be understated how important that status is to REBIC's work and success. We rely heavily on their regional housing data to bolster our efforts to steer policy makers towards positive decisions that help ease the housing crisis.

That's why we were thrilled to welcome Richard J. Buttimer Jr. as this episode's powerhouse guest. He returned to Charlotte in July of 2024 to the Belk College of business as their dean, following four years as dean of the Coggin College of Business at the University of North Florida in Jacksonville. There he led the process for UNF's successful renewal of the AACSB accreditation and created a new master's in the business analytics program.

Raised in Georgia and as much at home in the classroom as he is in the leadership positions that have dominated his career, we are pleased to share that Richard was the John Crosland, Sr. Distinguished Professor of Real Estate and Development at UNC Charlotte and also served the Belk College as senior associate dean, associate dean for faculty and research, director of the Childress Klein Center for Real Estate and in other leadership roles. Earlier in his career, he was the Gould/Mayfield Scholar in Real Estate and director of the real estate master's degree program at the University of Texas at Arlington. He also has served on the Board of Directors for the American Real Estate and Urban Economics Association.

Buttimer's academic research examines mortgage finance, real estate development and housing markets. He has been published in multiple scholarly journals such as Real Estate Economics, The Journal of Real Estate Finance and Economics and Regional Science and Urban Economics. He has taught graduate and undergraduate courses in real estate finance, real estate capital markets, financial management, corporate finance, financial derivatives, and fixed-income derivatives. He served on the Board of Directors for the American Real Estate and Urban Economics Association.

Buttimer has a bachelor's degree in finance and earned his Ph.D. in business administration with a focus on real estate from the University from the University of Georgia's Terry College of Business and is a Phi Kappa Phi honor society member.

Our conversation with Richard helped inform our understanding about what UNC's Belk College of business is doing behind the scenes to meet their goal of becoming one of the top 25 business schools in the country in the next decade.