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How did one lawyer go from a silent phone to a wildly successful probate firm? Come find out! In this episode, Sasha Berson chats with Darren Findling, brilliant founder of The Probate Pro. They talk about his journey from working in a tiny closet office to leading one of the *most* successful probate firms in the U.S. Darren breaks down his growth formula: skipping billboards and consumer ads, building a B2B referral engine instead, and focusing on real, authentic relationships. His approach to “making the phone ring until it smokes” paid off big time! Tune in now.

📰 About Darren Findling:
Darren Findling is the highly accomplished founder and President of The Probate Pro. With a legal career spanning over 30 years, he has built one of the most successful probate firms in the United States by combining an “always learning, always-on” leadership style, a referral-driven growth model, and a deep interest in people. Darren has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The View, and his firm has been recognized by Law Firm 500 as one of the fastest-growing law firms in the country from 2017 to 2019.

👉 Sasha and Darren explore:
— How billboards, radio, and consumer ads cost more than the case itself (and why B2B referrals are better!)
— How *not* to let ego kill your business: pick a name after your service (e.g., Probate Pro), not yourself.
— The #1 leadership mistake: assuming the best lawyers make the best managers.
— How AI is now the arbiter of knowledge. Make up for this with genuine relationships (this can’t be outsourced, only DIY’ed)

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:
— Pick one professional referral partner (CPA, attorney, realtor, financial advisor) and book a coffee meeting with them this week. Ask how you can support *their* business first.
— Write down the one idea you’ve been avoiding because it’s uncomfortable (asking for referrals, following up, speaking up). Do it this week.
— Identify one leadership role currently filled by a lawyer that should be filled by a non-lawyer operator.

📞 Connect with Darren Findling:
• Website: https://theprobatepro.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-findling

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

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Are you wildly busy? That might *not* mean you’re wildly successful! In this episode, Sasha Berson sits down with Phyllis Sisenwine, a 25+ year pioneer in lawyer business coaching. Together, they break down what separates a law firm owner making $400,000 from a law firm CEO making over $1 MILLION. Explore how those top “CEO” lawyers use delegation, referrals, and speaking engagements to scale faster. We can confirm: It *is* possible to get more clients without sacrificing your personal life. Tune in now.

📰 About Phyllis Sisenwine:
Phyllis Sisenwine is a Master Certified Coach (MCC). She has spent more than 25 years helping lawyers build more profitable and better-run law firms. She works with solo attorneys and law firm owners on business development, delegation, referrals, and time management. Phyllis is also a nationally recognized motivational speaker, the author of Market You Must, and a frequent radio and TV guest. She is renowned for her high-energy, hands-on coaching style.

👉 Sasha and Phyllis explore:
— How to spot $25/hour tasks and delegate them so you can focus on $300/hour work.
— The “lady in red” branding lesson that created unexpected business opportunities.
— Why alumni networks and bar associations are *HUGE* gold mines for business.
— How TOP attorneys leverage speaking engagements (free ones!), referrals, and one-on-one meetings.
— Why “meeting with yourself” is the most profitable habit you can develop.

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:
— Pick one growth channel (speaking gigs, building referral pipelines, or 1:1 meetings with potential clients and partners) and schedule it weekly. Consistency is vital.
— Identify $25/hour tasks and delegate them so you can spend time on $300/hour work.
— Block 2 hours every week for uninterrupted thinking time to map your law firm’s growth plan.

📞 Connect with Phyllis Sisenwine:
• Website: https://powerfulcoaching.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phyllissisenwine

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

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The future is bright (but terrifying). Are you ready for the next 3 years? In this eye-opening episode, Sasha Berson interviews CJ Advertising CEO Micki Love (a 32-year legal industry veteran). They discuss how AI will completely revolutionize the client attraction game come 2028. Find out where AI crushes it with marketing and intake, and where authentic human connections still rule supreme. Micki also reveals the COSTLY mistake most firms make with 60% of their leads. Future-proof your law firm. Tune in today.

📰 About Micki Love:
Micki Love is the talented CEO & President of CJ Advertising and a 32-year legal industry veteran. She started her career as a runner at a small personal injury firm in Kentucky and rose to become COO, helping scale the firm to 175+ employees across multiple states. After advising law firms nationwide through Vista Consulting, Micki joined CJ Advertising in 2018, where she now leads strategy, growth, and client success.

👉 Sasha and Micki explore:
— How AI is reshaping intake, operations, and client attraction (and where authenticity still shines).
— Why referrals continue to outperform every marketing channel.
— The “100-touch-point” strategy smart firms use to get remembered.
— The *very* costly mistake most firms make with 60% of their leads.
— How smaller firms can now catch up to “800-pound gorillas” using content, visibility, and smarter systems.

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:
— Stop ignoring rejected leads. Build a simple nurture system (email + text + check-ins) for the 60% who don’t become clients today.
— Strengthen your referral engine: add post-case follow-ups, anniversary messages, and client surveys.
— Create authentic content (avoid AI avatars). Record short videos answering real client questions and share them across platforms.
— Don’t rely on one channel. Use at least 8 to 12. Grow your visibility across referrals, email, video, community presence, SEO, and more.

📞 Connect with Micki Love:
• Website: https://www.cjadvertising.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/milove

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

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Is a 20-25% profit margin only a dream? Not for the top firms! In this episode, Sasha Berson sits down with fractional CFO Ryan Kimler to figure out what separates “meh” firms from the 4% that cross $1 MILLION. Ryan explains how smart owners reverse-engineer their growth, starting with their take-home pay. They dig into some math (it’s fun, we promise), like payroll, overhead, and marketing, to hit that golden 20–25% profit margin. Tune in today.

📰 About Ryan Kimler:
Ryan Kimler is the founder of Net Profit CFO, with a highly impressive track record. He partners with law firm owners to increase net profit margins by 52%+ and unlock 6 figures in additional owner distributions — often within 90 days! Ryan is also the creator of the Profit Clarity Blueprint™, a system built to replace reactive financial decisions with clear profit targets, cashflow forecasting, and CEO-level visibility. You can find Ryan at The Legal CFO podcast, where he teaches lawyers how to run firms that actually pay them back.

👉 Sasha and Ryan explore:
— Why only 4% of businesses cross $1M — and how to model a profitable, scalable firm after them.
— Why start with take-home pay, then reverse-engineer your profit, staffing, and revenue.
— Ryan’s law firm benchmarks: ~20% overhead, ~45% payroll, and 10–15% marketing.
— Why your billable staff must generate 3–5x their total compensation.
— Why chasing revenue without profit margin backfires ($1M more work can mean just $13K in profit).
— The CEO shift that creates 7-figure law firms.

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:
— Audit your expenses using Ryan’s benchmarks: aim for ~20% overhead, ~45% payroll, and 10–15% marketing to unlock 20–25% profit.
— Run the ROI test: every billable team member should generate at least 3–5x their total compensation.
— Shift into CEO mode: block weekly “thinking time” on your calendar to focus on strategy, systems, and growth (not cases).

📞 Connect with Ryan Kimler:
• Website: https://netprofitcfo.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryankfinancialclarityllc/

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

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Be lazy. Grow your law firm like crazy! In this episode, Sasha Berson sits down with the “CEO whisperer”, Cameron Herold, who helped a business scale from $2M to $106M in just 6 years! Cameron explains why most founders get trapped doing work they hate, what to delegate using a *BRUTAL* thought experiment, and why every successful firm has a CEO and COO. Serious about growing without the stress and exhaustion? Tune in today.

📰 About Cameron Herold:
Cameron Herold is the wildly talented founder of the COO Alliance and host of the Second in Command Podcast. He’s often called the “CEO Whisperer” — the guy leaders call when their company is growing fast and starting to feel messy. Cameron helped scale 1-800-GOT-JUNK from $2M to $106M in 6 years, then spent the years after teaching CEOs and COOs how to grow without burning out. He’s written 6 best-selling business books, spoken in 29 countries, and teaches leaders how to step out of the way and let their firms grow without them.

👉 Sasha and Cameron explore:
— How delegating low-value work yields better decisions at the top.

— What the 2-hour rule is: If you could only work 2 hours a day, what would you focus on?

— How to split vision and execution. This CEO–COO advantage is your biggest growth accelerant.

— Why hiring a strong operator pays for itself within the first few months… even with a $240K salary!

— Why firms that scale too fast are forced into painful turnover later.

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:

— Run Cameron’s 2-hour thought experiment: if you only had 2 hours a day to work, decide exactly what stays on your plate.

— Separate vision from execution: Assign one person full ownership of bringing your ideas to life (even if that starts part-time).

— Reframe how you look at senior hires. Evaluate their impact after the first payroll, not the first year.

— Block weekly thinking time on your calendar and treat it as non-negotiable work.

📞 Connect with Cameron Herold:

• Website: https://cameronherold.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronherold/

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

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Do you panic when leads *aggressively* drop? One lawyer lost 160 leads/per month, and grew his revenue by 59%! In this episode, Sasha Berson and Eric Gros-Dubois bust the myth that “more leads = more money”. Eric breaks down how AI is replacing low-level legal tasks (for the better!), how he masterfully delegates client acquisition to his team, and the top 3 “AI-proof” skills he urges every young lawyer to develop ASAP. Tune in today!

📰 About Eric Gros-Dubois:
Eric Gros-Dubois is a highly skilled business and corporate lawyer, and the Founder of EPGD Business Law, a Miami-based firm built for ambitious entrepreneurs. Armed with both a JD and an MBA, Eric thinks like a business owner first and a lawyer second. Since launching EPGD in 2013, he’s helped hundreds of clients navigate growth, risk, and complex legal decisions in an increasingly competitive market. Eric is also a highly sought-after speaker on next-gen law firm strategy, profitability, and the future of the legal world.

👉 Sasha and Eric explore:
— How losing low-quality leads can actually *increase* revenue.

— How raising retainers from $1,000 to $7,500 eliminates low-profit clients.

— How Eric broke founder dependence by shifting 30% of client acquisition to his team.

— The simple framework Eric uses to ensure every attorney covers salary plus ~$10,000/month in overhead before profit.

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:

— Audit the last 30 days of leads by source and identify which channels actually produced profitable clients.

— Raise your minimum retainer (or package price) and watch how client quality, stress, and closing conversations improve.

— Write down the true monthly cost per attorney (salary + overhead) and stop negotiating compensation without that number in front of you.

— Shift at least one client acquisition responsibility off yourself this quarter by incentivizing your team to bring in new business.

📞 Connect with Eric Gros-Dubois:

• Website: https://www.epgdlaw.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericgrosdubois/

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

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Most law firms stall below $3M due to *shockingly* avoidable mistakes! In this episode, Sasha Berson welcomes close friend and colleague Mary Grinnan, a law firm growth expert, who speaks with 300–400 law firm owners every single year. Mary breaks down the winning traits of $3M+ firms, and the hidden trap keeping the rest from scaling their revenue. Is this you? Tune in now or risk everything in 2026.

📰 About Mary Grinnan:
Mary Grinnan is a brilliant law firm growth specialist who has spoken to thousands of law firm owners and is now privy to every growth mistake in the book. As a senior advisor at Grow Law and Comrade Digital Marketing Agency, she’s guided 500+ firms through critical growth decisions, helping them escape their growth traps and break past that crucial $3M revenue threshold.

👉 Sasha and Mary explore:
— Why firms that start too modestly with their marketing end up paying more

— The clear behavioral edge of law firms that break $3M in revenue

— Why you’ll stay stuck in “hair-on-fire” mode if you don’t understand your lead-to-case math

— The one-year mistake that lets your competitors pull ahead

— Why building a *sellable* firm changes every growth decision you make

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:

— Identify whether you’re acting like a lawyer running cases or a business owner building an asset — decide which one you want to be

— Stop delaying “uncomfortable” decisions; write down the one move you’ve been avoiding and set a 30-day deadline

— Schedule a strategy review with your marketing partner and set a clear plan from your current revenue to your next milestone

📞 Connect with Mary Grinnan:

• Website: https://growlaw.co/

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mary-grinnan-7470133a

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/

Send us Fan Mail

Eager to scale past $5M? It’s going to be stressful and deeply uncomfortable. In this episode, Sasha Berson sits down with Luis Scott of 8 Figure Firm Consulting, who’s helped 30+ firms jump from low 7 figures to $10M, $20M… and even $100M+. They break down 3 vital growth stages, why 50%+ growth should feel chaotic, and what you *must* change today if you want to scale to $10M. Tune in now.

📰 About Luis Scott:
Luis Scott is the founder of 8 Figure Firm Consulting, where he helps law firm owners break through growth ceilings and scale from low 7 figures to 8 figures and beyond. As a former managing partner and COO, Luis understands that real, meaningful growth is disruptive. He has personally helped 30+ law firms double, triple, and reach $10M–$100M+ in revenue.

👉 Sasha and Luis explore:
— Why most ambitious law firm owners stall at $2–$5M

— The 3 distinct growth stages, and why 50%+ growth is chaotic by design

— What *actually* breaks when firms scale fast: leadership, systems, sales, and control

— Why marketing may not be your problem… but sales or leadership is

— The hidden cost of breaking through to $10M+ revenue that no one warns you about

👉 Main Takeaways from the Episode:

— Define your growth stage (0–25%, 25–50%, or 50%+) and align your expectations for stress.

— Audit before increasing your marketing spend. If leads exist but conversions don’t, the issue is likely sales.

— Set your growth pace intentionally for the next year. Choose controlled growth (25–30%) or prepare for disruption if scaling faster.

— Get an outside business diagnosis. Most owners overvalue their firm’s health; an advisor will surface blind spots quickly.

📞 Connect with Luis Scott:

• Website: https://www.8figurefirm.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luisscottjr

📞Connect with Sasha Berson:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grow-law/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grow_law/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@growlaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growlaw
• Email: info@growlaw.co
• Phone: (312) 854-7724

#LawyerWebsite #LawyerSEO #LawFirmMarketing

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information and links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s episode, visit https://growlaw.co/