In this episode, the conversation begins with an exploration of Jack’s thoughts on near-death experiences (NDEs) and similar phenomena, about which he has written extensively, including in his book, 'Stalking White Crows.’ Rory then raises the case of Pam Reynolds, a woman who claims to have had a vivid out-of-body experience while undergoing surgery for a brain aneurysm, and Jack explains why her case is considered by many to be particularly convincing.

From there, the pair turn to speculation about why the rigorous study of NDEs and related phenomena remains taboo in the mainstream scientific establishment despite the increasingly overwhelming body of veridical evidence supporting their existence as investigable phenomena. Rory and Jack agree that there are multiple factors—epistemic, ideological, and others related to identity-preservation and social esteem—that, together, inhibit the acceptance of these phenomena as valid objects of inquiry by most conventional scholars.

Finally, Rory suggests a certain family resemblance between NDEs, lucid dreaming, and psychedelic experiences, which causes the interlocutors to connect the conversation with the previous encounter’s thought experiment regarding the mass-dosing of the planetary human population via a formalized celebratory ritual or festival involving the consumption of psychedelic substances. Here, again, does the matter of coercion and consent come up, with the discussion now revolving primarily around questions raised by the line of thinking inaugurated by John Stuart Mill’s ‘harm principle.’