『EP 142: The Hidden Leadership and Mental Health Costs of Performative Goodness with Elise Loehnen』のカバーアート

EP 142: The Hidden Leadership and Mental Health Costs of Performative Goodness with Elise Loehnen

EP 142: The Hidden Leadership and Mental Health Costs of Performative Goodness with Elise Loehnen

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 What does it mean to be good?It’s a little word that carries a lot of weight for many of us. Be a good girl. Be a good friend. Be a good leader. Do good.Good can sound like praise, but become a cage of expectations and shoulds, a performance that chips away at our authenticity. Good is no longer something we are, but is how others see us. It leads us to people please and keep the peace at all costs. And that’s especially true for women.All too often, when women are in leadership, their goodness is measured by how they make others feel–good, comfortable, understood. All of that matters. But when the measure of leadership becomes how comfortable other people feel around us, we lose something essential.We perform and manage emotions instead of building trust and respect. We seek to be liked and to fit in at the cost of real integrity and effectiveness. And likability is oh-so fleeting.Respect, integrity, and true belonging take time and discomfort to build, but they last.My guest today has written beautifully and bravely about the cost of being good, the truth of belonging, and the courage it takes to lead ourselves and others through discomfort.Elise Loehnen is the New York Times bestselling author of On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to be Good and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread, where she interviews cultural luminaries about the big questions of today, including people like Joy Harjo, John and Julie Gottman, Dr. Gabor Maté, and Esther Perel. In addition to On Our Best Behavior, she is the author of a corresponding workbook—Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness—with coach Courtney Smith (July 2025), and the co-author of True & False Magic, with legendary psychiatrist Phil Stutz. Elise lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Rob, and their sons, Max and Sam.Listen to the full episode to hear:How Elise traced the cultural roots of the “good woman” back to early Christianity and the many additions, erasures, and mistranslations of Biblical storiesWhy we need to pay attention to our envy and how it shows up in relation to other womenHow envy, pride, and greed fuel each other and the ways we stay small and tear other women downHow social media has heightened the risk of reputational damage and changed how women work and lead, for better and worseWhy we latch onto ideas of goodness and purity more deeply in times of greater uncertaintyHow current narratives about the “natural” order are ahistorical manipulations that limit what we believe is possibleLearn more about Elise Loehnen:WebsitePulling the Thread on SubstackInstagram: @eliseloehnenOn Our Best Behavior: The Price Women Pay to Be GoodChoosing Wholeness Over Goodness: A Process for Reclaiming Your Full SelfTrue and False Magic: A Tools WorkbookLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Braving the Wilderness: The Quest for True Belonging and the Courage to Stand Alone, Brené BrownEP 123: Befriending Your Nervous System: Building Capacity for Regulation with Deb DanaThe Intrinsic Order that Emerges from Within Chaos (Elinor Dickson, PhD)Dancing in the Flames: The Dark Goddess in the Transformation of Consciousness, Elinor Dickson and Marion Woodman EP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar BarstowEP 125: Power, Regulation, and Leadership: Connecting to Your Personal Power with Dr. Amanda AguileraThe Reprioritization of Relationship (Lori Gottlieb)Maybe You Should Talk To Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed, Lori GottliebLessons from Hollywood’s Most Powerful Woman—And How They Can Help You (with Donna Langley) | Aspire with Emma GredeAnswer to Job, Carl JungAion: Researches Into the Phenomenology of the Self, Carl JungThe Science of Magic: How the Mind Weaves the Fabric of Reality, Dean Radin PhDMistakes Were Made (but Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts, Carol Tavris and Elliot AronsonSigur Rós - YouTubeJónsi - YouTubeLove IslandThe Gilded AgeMaidenStutz
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