Leadership isn’t about information—it’s about transformation.

What if leadership programs stopped focusing on “fixing” individuals and started designing for the real system they operate in? This episode unpacks why most L&D initiatives flop, what actually drives behavior change, and how to create a learning culture that sticks. Through vivid stories—from Ericsson’s transformation to Zoom cooking fails turned learning insights—Jennie Brown shares a refreshing take on how to do development that matters.

Jennie Brown, Managing Consultant at LIW, brings her strategic insights and deep experience leading transformative leadership initiatives across global organizations. In this conversation, she breaks down the mindset shift from pushing information to enabling real practice, and how flipping the usual learning sequence (context > team > self) unlocks meaningful performance. Whether you're in HR, L&D, or a leader looking to elevate your team—this episode is your blueprint for smarter, more human development.

Key Takeaways

• Building leadership from system to self makes development meaningful and measurable.
• Real change happens through practice and experimentation—not perfection or theory.
• Strong L&D programs demand line manager involvement and contextual, actionable learning.

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Timestamps:

[00:00] Choose what you care about in L&D

[00:51] Jennie introduces herself with personality and purpose

[02:00] Why work experience needs to change—and how leadership shapes it

[03:00] Deep dive into Ericsson’s cultural transformation program

[05:00] Why experimentation beats perfection in leadership

[07:00] The cooking story: what didn’t work, and what that teaches us

[09:00] Proudest moment leading a first-time intern to real impact

[12:00] The worst kind of L&D: overwhelming, unlinked, and manager-less

[16:00] Jennie’s contrarian take: reverse the order of leadership programs

[19:00] Best advice: Practice, curiosity, and intentional care

Links and Future Learnings

• Jennie Brown on Linkedin
• LIW Website
• Tom Bailey on LinkedIn
• Tom Bailey Website