“A joke is kind of like a little life-lesson in addition to being funny. If your joke is really good, there's a little nugget of truth in it.” – Cedar Van Tassel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cedar discuss why kids want to be paleontologists and astronauts, and the existential "book" Cedar wrote when he was four (2:00); how Cedar got started reading comics, which ones were his favorites, and his own early comics projects (8:00); the golden age of webcomics, and how Appleguy got started (16:00); the world of Appleguy and Beefwood, and its "roadside attraction" and other geographical subplots (24:00); how Cedar went from drawing an Instagram comic to having a book of comics published by a major North American indie comics publisher, and what his creative process looks like (37:30); and Cedar's four pieces of creative advice: 1) Be opportunistic; 2) Give yourself some rules; 3) Don't torture yourself; 4) People will find your interest in something interesting.

Cedar Van Tassel (@appleguy_comix) is the author of Appleguy and Beefwood, which was published by the iconic Montreal comics press Drawn & Quarterly in May of 2026. A lifelong plant and prairie lover, he does work on ecological restoration projects throughout the Great Plains.

Notable Links:

• Seinfeld (TV show)
• Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)
• The Misadventures of Wenamun, by Rolf Potts (comic book)
• Paleontology (using fossils to study the past)
• Calvin and Hobbes (daily comic strip)
• The Complete Calvin and Hobbes (comics anthology)
• Scott McCloud (cartoonist and comics theorist)
• The Simpsons (animated TV sitcom)
• Webcomics (comics published directly online)
• Garfield (daily comic strip)
• "The Dark Side of Travel Romance" (Deviate episode)
• Ents (tree humanoids in Lord of the Rings)
• S.P. Dinsmoor's Garden of Eden (roadside attraction in Kansas)
• World's Largest Belt Buckle (roadside attraction in Kansas)
• World's Largest Czech Egg (roadside attraction in Kansas)
• World's Largest Collection of the World's Smallest Versions of the World's Largest Things
• Biggest ball of twine (roadside attraction in Kansas)
• Marshall McLuhan (media theorist)

“When we don't foster local filmmaking traditions, we end up making movies about what we think life is like in the cities we do see movies about.” – Jason Bailey

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason talk about how being from Kansas influenced their careers as travel writers and film critics, and the long cultural shadow of The Wizard of Oz (2:30); how Jason's career started by making independent movies in Wichita, what those movies were like, and how he remembers them now (9:00); how many New York movies were shot in Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th century (19:00); how filmmaking moved back to New York during a less-than-glamorous time in the city's history, and how it's important to tell one more story about a place (26:00); and how technology might change the way movies are made and watched in the future (32:00).

Jason Bailey (@jasondashbailey) is an author and film critic, whose writing has appeared in such publications as the New York Times and Rolling Stone. He is the author of six books, including Fun City Cinema: New York City and the Movies that Made It, and Pulp Fiction: The Complete Story of Quentin Tarantino’s Masterpiece.

Notable Links:

• Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay)
• Celebrating the genius of Pulp Fiction (Deviate episode)
• Joan Didion (American author and essayist)
• Lady Bird (2017 film)
• Fargo (1996 film)
• The Wizard of Oz at Sphere (4D AI film in Las Vegas)
• Alissa Wilkinson (American film critic)
• Richard Brody (American critic)
• Pauline Kael (American critic)
• My Day in the Barrel (1998 Jason Bailey movie)
• Salvage anthropology (method of documenting declining cultures)
• Los Angeles Plays Itself (2003 essay film)
• Actuality film (early type of nonfiction motion picture)
• Martin Scorsese (American filmmaker)
• The Naked City (1948 film)
• Fame (1980 film)
• Jim Jarmusch (American filmmaker)
• John Cassavetes (American filmmaker)
• Media 100 (video editing system)
• Microdrama (serialized short-form online video)
• Mumblecore (subgenre of independent film)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017...

“I asked everyone if they were lonely. All the guys my age said 'no, I'm too busy; too much going on.' When I answer that quickly I'm either lying or it's something I'm afraid of.” – Andrew McCarthy

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about why Andrew took a USA road trip to reconnect with his friends (2:15); what kinds of friends Andrew sought out, why none of them were public figures, and how loneliness is bad for men's health (8:00); the kinds of men Andrew spoke with in passing on the trip, why Andrew sought out Elvis Presley sites on the road, and how women's friendships differ from men's (17:30); Andrew's takeaways from his road trip, why "showing up" for people is important, and how travel can be the "university of life" (28:00); audience questions about friendships between younger men, the rumored possibility of a St. Elmo's Fire sequel, the task of recording an audiobook, creepy things that happened on the road, and how travel inevitably makes us more open and curious (35:30).

Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy) is an actor, television director and writer of such books as The Longest Way Home, Brat and Walking with Sam. His newest book is Who Needs Friends: An Unscientific Examination of Male Friendship Across America.

Notable Links:

• Tips for telling travel stories, with Andrew McCarthy (Deviate episode)
• Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes)
• Travels with Charley in Search of America, by John Steinbeck (book)
• Brat Pack (group of young 1980s actors)
• Elvis Presley Birthplace (museum site in Tupelo, Mississippi)
• Camps Promising to Turn You into an Alpha Male (article)
• Comstock, Texas (incorporated community)
• Joshua Speed (close friend of Abraham Lincoln)
• St. Elmo's Fire (1985 movie)
• Geoff Dyer (English author and travel writer)
• Strawberry Hill (neighborhood in Kansas City, Kansas)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.