Learning to improve assessment capacity is a continual journey for the practicing mental health practitioner. This episode provides a research article that endorses the clinician’s instincts and highlights ways that what is happening inside for our patient (i.e. nervous system activation, etc.) is displayed in facial movements.

Brenda then adds a discussion of interventions she uses, and offers them for listeners to consider for applications in their own practices.

References:

Additional podcast episodes on heart rate variability:

https://connection-therapy.com/playlist

Rachael Draaisma’s discussion about Calming Signals are in Connection Therapy episodes 48, 49, and 50

Optimal HRV

https://www.optimalhrv.com/

Stephen Porges (2011). Polyvagal theory: Neurophysiological foundations of emotions, attachment, communication, and self-regulation.

Torres EB and Elsayed M (2026) Facial micro-movements as a proxy of increasingly erratic heart rate variability while experiencing pressure pain. Front. Neurosci. 20:1702124. doi: 10.3389/fnins.2026.1702124

Attend a Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/courses-and-events

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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In this last part of Brenda’s interview with Janet Jones, they discuss the many ways learning to understand how horses communicate make humans better at communicating overall.

In this episode, listeners will hear clear indications for the practice of mental health, rather it be in animal-assisted or in-office environments. Janet also discusses how there are wide-ranging audiences gaining interest in her work, so all listeners are welcomed and encouraged to apply her expertise to their environments.

For More Information about our Guest:

Janet Jones, PhD

https://janet-jones.com

Attend a Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/courses-and-events

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

Leave feedback or ask a question with a message on Instagram: @theconnectiontherapypodcast

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There are now playlists for you to navigate to your favorite topics: https://connection-therapy.com/playlist

In this part of Brenda’s interview with Dr. Janet Jones, they explore the differing ways that horses and humans display their emotional states. Dr. Jones emphasizes significant differences in meaning and preference for some behaviors, particularly eye contact.

The conversation yields important information that can be used to improve equine-assisted services by learning the differences in needs between species, and exploring how that can be communicated to make interactions more effective and supportive.

For More Information about our Guest:

Janet Jones, PhD

https://janet-jones.com

Also, Brenda reviewed some of Dr. Jones’ work in podcast episode #85

Attend Dr. Janet Jones’ Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/product/janet

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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Brenda invites Dr. Janet Jones to the podcast to discuss her many areas of expertise including human cognition and memory, as well as horse training. Dr. Jones combines her education and experiences to support listeners in learning about the neuroscience implications across species.

Dr. Jones begins by describing horse brains and human brains, what both species need and how they can partner best, including the importance of cross-training for horses, and ways to enhance teamwork and communication.

For More Information about our Guest:

Janet Jones, PhD

https://janet-jones.com

Attend a Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/courses-and-events

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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Dr. Brenda Murrow studies, teaches, and practices psychology, and she has a specific interest in how working with animals can inform us about the human experience. Her experiences shape her understanding of why this is possible and why she has come to the perspective that working in animal-assisted therapy environments is not just therapeutic (there is a lot of evidence to confirm this), but also that it can be diagnostic.

In this episode she shares some introductions into how she uses her learnings and experiences in animal-assisted therapy encounters to be able to assess and intervene in in-office therapy environments, so that all practitioners can benefit from these insights.

References:

Bruce Perry, MD, PhD

https://www.bdperry.com/about

Dan Siegel’s “Window of Tolerance”

Dan Siegel, https://drdansiegel.com/

Attend a Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/courses-and-events

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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Brenda and Haley continue their conversation and in this part, they consider applications of the respective information about horse and about humans, and how it can be integrated to support better relationships.

They also explore the differences between interspecies relationships, for example when humans relate to horses vs. when humans relate to dogs each brings out different behaviors from humans.

Listeners will benefit from these perspectives by considering different viewpoints on common interactions that take on new meaning in their discussion.

For More Information about our Guest:

Haley Mathews, PATH Intl. CTRI®

https://www.xenophontrc.org/staff

https://pathintl.org/

Attend a Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/courses-and-events

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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Brenda and Haley met at a Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship (PATH), International event, where Haley spoke about the behaviors of horses, and Brenda spoke about the behaviors of humans. After their respective presentations, they realized their discussions were complementary. In this conversation, they review each of their presentations for listeners to be able to similarly hear the complementary presentations horses and humans make.

Practitioners will benefit from learning both of these perspectives in their application to mental health and equine services.

For More Information about our Guest:

Haley Mathews, PATH Intl. CTRI®

https://www.xenophontrc.org/staff

https://pathintl.org/

Attend a Course at Connection Therapy:

https://connection-therapy.com/courses-and-events

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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Enjoying the podcast?

There are now playlists for you to navigate to your favorite topics: https://connection-therapy.com/playlist

Learning to relate to other species can make us more aware of relating to our own species. In this spirit, Dr. Murrow reviews some similarities and differences between horses and humans as described by Dr. Janet Jones in her book, Horse Brain: Human Brain: The Neuroscience of Horsemanship.

This episode has insights for mental health therapists and resources for anyone interested in improving their abilities to relate with others.

We Want to Hear Your Feedback! Please Contribute to the Conversation: Share your thoughts on the podcast and how these concepts work in your practice, or ask a question and I’ll answer it in an upcoming episode: https://connection-therapy.com/contact-us

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References:

Gottman Institute

https://www.gottman.com/blog/how-to-improve-your-relationship-in-24-hours/

Janet Jones, PhD

https://janet-jones.com/

Horse Brain, Human Brain: The Neuroscience of Horsemanship (2020), Trafalgar Square, Vermont, pp. 32-34, and 169-174.