Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is best-selling author of Careers By the People, Mike Wysocki.

Mike Wysocki discusses how his own career path shaped his focus on career readiness. As a first-generation, low-income student, his early goal was simply to go to college and get a job in business. After graduating, he found the experience underwhelming and unfulfilling. Even when he later moved into well-paid tech sales in Los Angeles, the work felt unchallenging and disconnected from his interests. That realization led him to ask others about their careers, which ultimately inspired his book Careers by the People, featuring candid advice from more than 100 professionals.

Through his research and speaking with students, Wysocki has found that many young people remain confused about career paths, particularly outside elite universities. He believes the connection between education and the workforce is often weak, with students lacking awareness of industries, networking strategies, and professional tools like LinkedIn.

Wysocki pushes back on the idea that students should simply follow passion or talent alone. Instead, he encourages students to identify industries that genuinely interest them and then apply their strengths within those fields. Building a network within an industry makes it easier to move between roles such as sales, operations, or marketing while maintaining connections and credibility.

A key piece of his advice is for students to speak directly with experienced professionals. Conversations with people who have spent years in a field—and especially those who have left it—provide more realistic insight than relying on peers or family members alone. Hearing multiple perspectives helps students better understand the pros and cons of different careers.

Wysocki also emphasizes that many students only know careers within their family networks, which can limit awareness of other opportunities. Expanding exposure to different industries earlier in life can help students discover options that better match their interests.

Reflecting on his own experience, Wysocki says college was valuable because it helped him build writing skills, confidence, and broader knowledge. He believes higher education can be transformative, particularly for students from working-class backgrounds, but students must also use that time to actively explore careers and build professional connections.

His upcoming book examines how current college students prepare for the workforce, using detailed questionnaires with students from state universities across the United States. The goal is to better understand their career thinking, preparation strategies, and the gaps that still exist between college and the workplace.

Wysocki encourages educators to leverage alumni networks and retired professionals when helping students explore careers. Alumni can share practical experience, while retirees often feel freer to speak candidly about the realities of their industries.

This episode of College & Career Readiness Radio features our guest Patrick Jones, an experienced educator, business leader, and expert in career readiness.

Patrick argues that the “internship shortage” is really a systems problem rooted in how higher education and K-12 interface with employers, not a lack of student interest or talent. He explains the friction employers face—especially smaller organizations—when trying to work with colleges, and calls for more employer-friendly structures, incentives, and even intermediaries that can broker relationships at scale.

Patrick emphasizes that today’s students often arrive at college with less work experience and limited exposure to the full range of roles in industries they care about. He shares examples of helping students see beyond the obvious job titles (like “athlete”) to the many supporting careers in areas such as sports marketing, finance, operations, and analytics, and stresses the importance of discovery experiences that broaden their sense of what’s possible.

He also makes a compelling case that any internship is better than no internship, because the biggest barrier is access, not perfection. Even imperfect or loosely structured internships can teach punctuality, communication, hierarchy, feedback, and “managing up,” especially when paired with reflection and guidance from an advisor or faculty member.

Patrick introduces his Discover–Ready–Find framework, the focus of his forthcoming book. Discover helps students understand how the labor market really works and why relying only on degrees and GPAs is risky. Ready reframes college as a platform for building emotional maturity, durable skills, and early work experience, starting as early as the first year. Find helps students develop a career “taste palette,” so they can intentionally seek environments and roles that fit who they are, rather than taking the first offer by default.

Throughout the conversation, Patrick returns to one central theme: students don’t just need more programs—they need caring adults and well-designed systems of support that prepare them for the realities of work. His message to educators is clear: build real relationships, create more on-ramps to authentic work experiences, and help young people connect their education to opportunity with purpose.

This episode of College and Career Readiness Radio features Kim Gameroz, founder of Teaching Inside Out and SELbrate Good Times.

Kim defines SEL as intentionally teaching students how the social world works so they can function successfully in life and work, rather than assuming they already possess these skills. She emphasizes cognitive flexibility (shifting when things do not go a student’s way), emotional intelligence (accurately identifying emotions and using strategies like mood meters and zones of regulation), perspective taking (jumping into the mind of another person, character, or historical figure), and executive functioning (goal setting, planning, and adapting plans) as core elements educators must actively teach.​

For classroom practice, Kim urges educators to embed SEL into daily systems and routines instead of treating it as an add-on program. She describes an intentional feelings check-in that always pairs “How are you feeling?” with “What tool will you use to support yourself right now?” so students build a toolbox of self-regulation strategies and then reflect later on whether those tools actually helped.​

Kim stresses that the real “solution” begins with the adult: SEL is not about fixing kids, but about educators making a mindset shift toward teaching lagging skills rather than punishing behavior. She challenges teachers, counselors, and leaders to be intentional in their responses, avoid explosive reactions, and recognize that they are not meant to do this work alone; instead, they should “find their herd” of like-minded colleagues who believe SEL must be taught, not assumed.​

Drawing from her upcoming book, Becoming the BISON, Kim uses the bison metaphor to describe educators who “run into the storm” together rather than avoiding hard situations like challenging behaviors, difficult parent emails, and classroom chaos. Bison represent being intentional so others notice—choosing actions that create a sense of calm, unity, and growth mindset for students, and modeling cognitive flexibility and emotional regulation during inevitable storms.​

Kim offers concrete modeling moves for elementary classrooms, such as “mental dress rehearsals” of transitions where students act out expectations with their hands before moving their bodies. She frontloads potential problems (e.g., what to do if someone takes your spot) and explicitly teaches flexible responses, then uses calm prompts like “Was that part of your path?” to coach outliers toward expectations rather than relying on punishment.​

For secondary students, Kim adapts the same rehearsal idea to executive functioning and future planning. She suggests guiding students through visualizations of going home, managing after-school schedules, and deciding when and how they will study or complete assignments, helping them mentally sequence steps and adjust plans when life “storms” disrupt the day.​

Kim explicitly connects these SEL competencies—emotional intelligence, planning, organization, cognitive flexibility, and co-regulation—to college and career readiness as durable, transferable skills. She notes that adult life requires constantly shifting plans, regulating emotions under stress (from broken pipes to workplace conflicts), and working productively with people who may be difficult, all of which mirror the SEL work students must practice in school.​

Her closing message to educators is clear: “Teach social and emotional skills, don’t expect them.” When a student’s behavior is frustrating, she encourages adults to ask, “What skill is lagging?” and remember that “kids do well if they can,” shifting from blame to instruction and from expectation to intentional teaching.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Brian Johnson.

Brian explains why simply “placing kids” isn’t enough and why districts must define clear quality criteria so work-based learning experiences are aligned, mentored, and meaningful.

He shares the six basic characteristics he uses to vet opportunities: minimum hours, alignment to a student’s pathway of study, a professional mentor/supervisor, a real-world environment, student interest, and space for students to discover what they don’t want.

Brian describes his student intake process, where he learns about each student’s pathway, interests, dislikes, and dream organizations and uses that to co‑design potential placements.

He has students spend two weeks actively using their own networks—family, neighbors, community—to try to find a placement, teaching them that finding a job is a skill and giving them “skin in the game.”

Brian notes that 50–60% of students typically find their own placements, and then he steps in to formalize details with partners and ensure the experience meets district criteria.

He talks about preparing and coaching industry partners, including helping them understand the developmental realities of working with teenagers and why their feedback is so powerful.

Brian outlines a clear termination process: partners coach first, but if performance doesn’t improve, they are encouraged to end the placement just as they would in real life.

He emphasizes that termination should be a learning experience, not the end of the road, and he builds in a redemption process so students can reflect, get coaching, and try again.

In the redemption phase, students must fully own the search for their next experience, while Brian commits to supporting them (including making calls alongside them if they struggle to find something).

He explains how he creates “competitive opportunities” where students must apply and interview, even if there are enough slots, so they feel pressure, practice competing, and learn to handle rejection.

Brian shares how he uses “rejection therapy” and real examples (like a student losing an opportunity after signaling wrestling was a higher priority) to help students understand professional expectations.

He contrasts asking for unpaid favors from industry with offering a “menu” of ways to partner—career fairs, speaking in classes, mentoring, hosting interns, hybrid options—to make participation realistic.

Brian cautions that relying on philanthropy alone is not sustainable and urges coordinators to approach this work more like relationship‑based sales that respect a business’s needs and constraints.

He calls for advisory boards and partners who truly bring value and ideas to the table instead of just “checking the box” of attendance.

Brian explains why work-based learning must be part of a district’s DNA, not a last‑minute add‑on in 11th or 12th grade, and why culture and expectations have to be built over time.

He describes “curiosity fairs” for pre‑K–4, where students dress as what they want to be and meet real professionals from those fields, alongside more traditional career fairs in grades 5 and 7.

He emphasizes using parents and families as the first and strongest partner network in elementary schools, inviting them in as speakers and role models from all kinds of jobs.

He encourages schools to think less about hitting home runs and more about consistent exposure so students don’t reach senior year with no idea what they want to do.

Brian’s closing message is that educators should stop trying to control everything: they should own the systems and supports, but students must own their journeys, their effort, and their outcomes.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Jan Jardine.

Jan Jardine explains how work-based learning helps students connect classroom learning with real-world careers through internships, apprenticeships, and CAPS-style industry projects, often revealing both what students love and what is not a good fit before they invest in postsecondary education.

She describes how CAPS programs “bring industry to students” by embedding them in professional environments where they work in teams on authentic client projects, practicing skills like communication, project management, and handling iterative feedback instead of just observing adults at work.

She emphasizes the importance of starting career-connected learning earlier, moving beyond a 9–12 or “just CTE” model by integrating projects and industry connections into middle school courses like College and Career Awareness and even elementary-level career exploration, so students do not “meander” through pathways without direction.

Jan also pushes for breaking down silos between core academics and CTE, sharing examples of engineering students who independently applied calculus to design a moving staircase prototype, illustrating how interdisciplinary, project-based work makes academic content meaningful.​

For rural and under-resourced communities, Jan urges educators to treat the school system itself as an industry partner—leveraging child nutrition, IT, transportation, HR, and other internal departments, as well as nearby community colleges, to create rich work-based learning experiences even where external employers are scarce.

She reflects on the 2025 ACTE CareerTech Vision conference (in New Orleans this year), noting growing national momentum: more conference sessions on rural innovation, younger grades, and postsecondary collaboration.

Jan highlights the upcoming National Work-Based Learning Conference in Rhode Island (April 29–May 1), where sessions will range from foundations for new coordinators to advanced topics for experienced leaders looking to “level up” their programs, with special attention to business partner engagement and rural models.

She also shares details about the ACTE-sponsored Leadership Alliance for Work-Based Learning, a new cohort for 10 practitioners that includes in-person learning at the conference, five virtual sessions, and a capstone project to be presented at the 2027 conference, designed to help leaders tackle real challenges in their own contexts.​

Her call to action for educators is simple but powerful: share your story—do not assume your work is “no big deal,” because when you consistently tell students’ success stories, communities, industry partners, and policymakers better understand the impact and begin to advocate for and invest in this work.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Thomas Murray.

Tom Murray says that strong leadership is the foundation of any innovative, student‑centered district and that every major initiative will rise and fall with the quality of its leaders.​

Tom explains that the best leaders are learners who empower others, adapt, delegate to build capacity, engage their communities, reflect on their work, and ultimately lead as servants.​

He emphasizes that leadership is not about titles and that some of the most influential leaders in schools are classroom teachers, support staff, or bus drivers who care deeply, solve problems, and earn others’ trust.​

Murray points out that a healthy culture cannot coexist with toxic leadership and that every interaction in a school system is either building the culture up or tearing it down.​

Tom says that districts must be intentional about leadership development through coaching, mentoring, and clear pipelines for aspiring leaders, instead of expecting people to figure it out alone.​

He argues that “college and career readiness” must truly mean college and career, treating four‑year college as one important option among many pathways.​

Tom Murray notes that giving students access is not enough and that real success depends on creating a sense of belonging where students feel the space was designed with them in mind.​

He believes the ultimate purpose of pathways work is to ensure every student has enough exposure and support to graduate ready to live life on their own terms.​

Tom says that pathways work should start in elementary school so students can learn who they are as learners and see a wide range of careers beyond what they encounter at home.​

Murray shares that Future Ready Pathways offers free, research‑informed resources to help districts design pathways that expand access, opportunity, and belonging for all students.Tom Murray says that strong leadership is the foundation of any innovative, student‑centered district and that every major initiative will rise and fall with the quality of its leaders.​

Learn more at FutureReadyPathways.org.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Brandon Busteed.

Brandon says that work-integrated learning connects traditional academic study with learning that happens on the job and includes not only internships, but also co-ops, apprenticeships, job shadowing, and long-term classroom projects designed with industry input.​

Brandon points out that internships are a game changer: students who have an internship in college are about twice as likely to secure a good job at graduation and remain engaged in their careers, but under a third of graduates actually have such internships with real classroom applicability.​​

He emphasizes that the biggest problems are scale and equity, noting that while 8.2 million college students want internships, only 3.6 million receive one; access skews toward students with more resources and social connections.​

Brandon argues that the internship supply-demand gap could be closed if every employer devoted 5% of their jobs to interns, and that even paying all interns fairly would be comparable in cost to other large-scale federal investments.​

According to Brandon, the quality of internships matters as much as their availability: longer internships yield better results, but any length is valuable if there’s a meaningful project, feedback, and structured reflection alongside clear learning goals.​

He believes that high-quality, work-integrated learning can and should be embedded into classrooms through real-world, project-based work that exposes students to a variety of industry roles.​

Brandon’s work at Edconic includes “industry immersive” programs, which partner with well-known organizations so students can experience hands-on projects, receive direct feedback, and learn about multiple types of jobs even if traditional internships aren’t an option.​

He insists that co-designing and co-teaching these experiences with educators and industry leaders is critical, as educators bring assessment and pedagogical skill while industry partners provide real-world context and mentorship.​

Brandon says that parents and educators often focus too much on grades and test scores, undervaluing work experience even though it’s vital for career success.​

Lastly, Brandon calls for a culture shift: he believes that policymakers, schools, parents, and employers need to treat paid, quality work experiences as a fundamental part of education, not just an option for a privileged few.

Our guest for this episode of College & Career Readiness Radio is Alisa Morse, K12 Director for the CAPS Network.

Alisa Morse explains the concept of “profession-based learning” as an umbrella term for connecting students with real-world industry experiences, including internships, co-ops, client-connected projects, and career discovery.​

She highlights that high-impact client-connected projects involve students working directly with industry partners to solve open-ended problems that aren't mission critical but offer authentic challenges, mentorship, and opportunities for innovation and self-discovery.​

The CAPS Network brings industry experts into classrooms, enabling all students—not just those in internships—to participate in practical, relevant projects and develop durable professional skills like teamwork and project management.​

Profession-based learning can be adapted for every age group, with new initiatives starting in middle and even elementary school to foster career awareness early and address gaps in work-based learning equity.​

Alisa details how projects can fit into core classes (e.g., connecting biology with local Parks and Rec projects), elective/academy pathways, short challenge events, or through mentorship and internal partnerships within the school community.​

She emphasizes the importance of self-reflection and metacognition during and after these projects to deepen learning and help students make informed decisions about their future.​

The episode includes practical advice for rural schools and underserved communities: start with internal resources like school staff, local Chamber of Commerce, and county economic development offices to connect students with real work experiences.​

Alisa shares free resources (experience.work and CAPS Network website) that help educators launch and operate profession-based learning, including customizable templates and guides for partnering with industry.​

Her call to action for educators is to “go where students lead”—following their interests and energy to create transformative learning opportunities, and embracing humility to allow students’ passions to guide school improvement.

You can reach Alisa at alisa@yourcapsnetwork.org.

And, if you want to discuss college and career readiness with the host of the show, including MaiaLearning as a solution to bridge the gap between industry partners and the school system, book time here.