On this episode I speak with Gabriel Sigmund, Assistant Professor at Wageningen University and Research, and board member of the International Panel on Chemical Pollution (IPCP).

We discuss:

• Gabriel’s background and research interests
• How the fate of charged organic compounds differs from neutral compounds
• The issue of mobility in the environment and the concern around persistent, mobile and toxic (PMT) substances
• Complex interactions controlling sorption and other fate processes in soil
• The ongoing importance of laboratory experiments in the age of AI
• Data availability and data quality challenges for persistence and mobility assessments
• Implications of the new PMT/vPvM hazard classes under the EU CLP regulation
• Simplification and essential use concepts for chemicals management
• The issue of extreme persistence and the concern around trifluoroacetic acid (TFA)
• Pesticides as a potential source of TFA to the environment
• How differences in worldviews influences the debate on chemicals
• Activities of the SETAC Persistence Science Interest Group

Apologies for some sound issues on this one.

Correction: During the discussion on TFA I commented that I had seen evidence in a presentation by Freeling that concentrations in plant samples had apparently increased four-fold between 2010 and 2020. Having revisited the published work (link below), the approximately four-fold increase was reported over the observation period 1989-2020.

Sorption and Mobility of Charged Organic Compounds: How to Confront and Overcome Limitations in Their Assessment | Environmental Science & Technology

The Global Threat from the Irreversible Accumulation of Trifluoroacetic Acid (TFA) | Environmental Science & Technology

Pesticides can be a substantial source of trifluoroacetate (TFA) to water resources - ScienceDirect

‘Alarming’ increase in levels of forever chemical TFA found in European wines | Pfas | The Guardian

Levels and Temporal Trends of Trifluoroacetate (TFA) in Archived Plants: Evidence for Increasing Emissions of Gaseous TFA Precursors over the Last Decades | Environmental Science & Technology Letters

Pollution is Colonialism - book by Max Liboiron (2021)

SETAC Persistence Science Interest Group

Webinar recording: Addressing Extreme Persistence – Identification, Behavior and Management of “Forever Chemicals” Beyond PFAS

Upcoming webinar: How to increase understanding of microbial inocula in biodegradation testing?

SETAC Europe 35th Annual Meeting

In Memoriam: John Parsons

Themed collection: Transformation Products and Mixtures – Environmental Science: Processes & Impacts

Ahead of the Society of Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry (SETAC) annual European conference in Vienna (11-15th May), I caught up with Sabine Apitz, SETAC Europe President and Editor-in-Chief of the academic journal Integrated Environmental Assessment and Management (IEAM).

Sabine and I had a fascinating discussion about environmental science, the scientific community, and the emergence and application of scientific knowledge. We discussed some of the pressing issues and challenges facing the SETAC community, and society at large. Sabine also shared some of what we could look forward to at the upcoming Vienna conference and the 9th SETAC World Congress (and first to be held in Africa) later this year.

Our conversation covers:

• Sabine’s background and career journey
• The emergence and application of scientific knowledge
• Using tools and models to inform environmental policy, and appreciating their limitations
• Sabine’s experience working as an independent consultant
• The role of scientists from different backgrounds in science and policy discussions
• Public representation at SETAC and in broader environmental discourse
• Reflections on the current political environment for science and society at large
• Dealing with complexity in trying to understand ecosystems
• Sabine’s own experience with podcasting
• An unexpected finding from an investigation into hygiene products
• Upcoming SETAC events – Vienna and Johannesburg

This is a great one for anyone interested in learning more about SETAC, the organisation that brings together scientists from across disciplines to study the issue of chemicals in the environment and to inform science-based environmental decisions.

Links from the discussion:

SETAC website: SETAC

Vienna conference: SETAC Europe 35th Annual Meeting

World Congress event: SETAC 9th World Congress

IEAM academic journal: Integrated Environmental Assessment and Management | Oxford Academic

Sabine's editorial (published in 2017): Science, antiscience, and environmental decision making: A call to action | Integrated Environmental Assessment and Management | Oxford Academic

(co-authors: Thomas Backhaus, Peter M Chapman, Wayne Landis, Glenn Suter)

Sabine's podcast: Join the Dots | jointhedots

(co-hosts: Ece Ozdemiroglu and Jill Duggan)

In this episode I speak with Delina Lyon, Science Executive for Environment at Concawe.

Del and I dive deep into the regulatory assessment of complex substances. This issue still presents a wicked challenge for industry and regulators alike, and Concawe's work is right at the forefront of this.

Our conversation covers:

• What is Concawe?
• Del's role at Concawe
• Environmental assessment of petroleum substances under REACH
• Del's early career and switch from academia to industry
• Reflections on the science-policy interface
• Developments in regulatory testing and assessment
• Conflicts of interest and the role of industry scientists
• The wicked problem of complex substances (UVCBs)
• Challenges with biodegradation testing
• Weight of evidence and the Persistence Assessment Tool (PAT)
• The hydrocarbon block method and related tools PETROTOX and PETRORISK
• Persistence, bioaccumulation and toxicity (PBT) assessments and the new PMT concept

Concawe website

Persistence Assessment Tool (PAT)

PETROTOX tool - Concawe

PETRORISK tool - Concawe

In this episode I speak with Jason Snape. Jason is a Research Professor in sustainable healthcare and environmental sustainability at the University of York, and prior to that was Global Head of Environment at AstraZeneca.

Our discussion covers:

• Jason's career journey to date
• His move into academia and future research goals
• Sustainable healthcare in developing economies
• Reflections on regulatory persistence assessments
• Environmental safety within the pharmaceutical sector
• The threat of antimicrobial resistance (AMR)
• Extended producer responsibility and the EU Urban Wastewater Treatment Directive
• The water industry, the state of UK waterways, and public attitudes to drinking water

Jason has a huge amount of knowledge to share about some of the most pressing challenges in society. Join us to explore potential solutions!

Jason's 2018 keynote on AMR at SETAC Europe

ECOSOLUTIONS PhD training programme

In this episode I am joined by Libby Sommer, an independent consultant working on sustainability in the apparel industry.

Libby and I discuss:

• Libby’s background and early career
• Her work on sustainability and life cycle assessments in the apparel industry
• Working with start-ups
• Drivers of innovation
• How sustainability focus areas have evolved over the years
• The environmental and human costs of textile waste
• Biodegradation and recycling of textiles
• Reducing and mitigating environmental emissions
• The Association for the Advancement of Alternatives Assessment (A4)
• A4’s links with SETAC and the Safe and Sustainable by Design (SSbD) initiative

Libby’s website: Libby Sommer

Biomimicry Institute Design4Transformation initiative: Resources

Association for the Advancement of Alternatives Assessment (A4) website: Home — Safer Alternatives

In this episode I share an article discussing the issue of environmental persistence, and why this is fast becoming a top priority that producers of chemical products need to address. I also share some insights on what has been happening since the article was published.

Read the original article: Why environmental persistence should be a top priority for safe and sustainable products — Embark Chemical Consulting

On the latest developments:

ECHA guidance on the new CLP hazards: Guidance on the Application of the CLP Criteria - Part 4/5: Environmental hazards and additional hazards

Recording of SETAC topical discussion on extreme persistence: Addressing Extreme Persistence – Identification, Behavior and Management of “Forever Chemicals” Beyond PFAS on Vimeo

ECETOC workshop on OECD 309 surface water biodegradation test: Overcoming challenges and advancing (bio)degradation guidelines: OECD TG309 revisited - ECETOC

SETAC Vienna conference (11 – 15 May 2025): SETAC Europe 35th Annual Meeting

Further information:

Download the Persistence Assessment Tool: Persistence Assessment Tool (PAT) | Industry insights | News and insights | Ricardo

Read the Cefic-LRI ECO52 project reports: ECO52 – Bioavailability, complex substances and overall persistence (BCOP): three themes to deliver a step-change in persistence assessments – Cefic-Lri

Learn about the SETAC Persistence Science Interest Group: Announcing the New Persistence Science Interest Group

In this episode I am joined by Peter Fisk, founder of Green Chemical Design Ltd, and formerly of Peter Fisk Associates (now Vitis Regulatory).

Peter talks about his extensive career journey, and gives an honest appraisal of the evolution and current state of chemicals management in Europe.

Our discussion covers a lot of ground, including:

• Peter's early career and interests as a scientist
• Making the switch to consultancy and starting a business
• The advent of the REACH regulation and the transformation of chemicals management in Europe
• How interactions between regulators and industry have changed over time
• Unifying qualities of regulatory scientists
• Challenges with the implementation of REACH: on read-across, QSARs, testing costs, bureaucracy, and the speed of regulatory processes
• Hazard assessment vs risk assessment
• REACH for polymers
• Safe and Sustainable by Design (SSbD)
• The challenge of assessing complex substances (UVCBs) and the progress made by the oil industry
• Opportunities and challenges with green chemistry and chemical substitution
• The potential of Hansen Solubility Parameters as a tool to evaluate chemical hazards
• Remembering Steve Robertson
• Ethical concerns with fish testing and regulatory box-ticking
• Praise for the REACH registered substances database
• The extreme persistence of PFAS and their impact on other chemistries

Peter has accrued a huge amount of knowledge and wisdom during his career. If you're interested in learning from his experience, this one is not to be missed!

Green Chemical Design - Together we can do even better chemistry

In Memoriam: Stephen (Steve) Michael Robertson (1949–2023)

In this episode I am joined by Jen Novakovic from The Eco Well. Jen is as an influencer and podcaster in the cosmetics space. She focuses in particular on issues of science communication and misinformation.

Our conversation covers:

• Jen's journey and work on science communication in the cosmetics sector
• What is misinformation, and why is it a problem?
• The role of social media and human biases
• The need for effective science communication
• Misinformation on UV filters, coral bleaching and climate change
• Potential barriers to effective science communication
• The problem with 'Free From' claims, and other perverse incentives
• Experiences on different social media platforms
• Trust in science, institutional defensiveness, and taking responsibility
• The cost of conferences, and Jen's work on e-summits

Find out more about Jen's work on the Eco Well website: The Eco Well

My conversation with Jen on the Eco Well podcast: Biodegradation and Persistence with Chris Hughes — The Eco Well

The Sustainable Beauty E-Summit (23rd February) event page: Sustainable Beauty E-Summit — The Eco Well