A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code and Theory joins us for our 150th Show to share observations on the major forces impacting the B2B space. Michael details how "empowered buyers" are forcing sellers to increase focus on customer value creation and transforming marketing and sales from "leads to information" which is also shifting spending to capital expense. Key topics include: why the next AI frontier is customer experience; the need for companies to have both a long and short-term AI plans; why budgeting won't get any easier and; the gap between the CX problems and CX actions. Tune in to hear why you need to have an "AI plan for your humans" and learn if you need " a personalized relationship with your mustard."

CMO Confidential #150: Michael Treff on B2B’s Year-In-Review, What’s Next, and How AI Will Actually Drive Growth**

B2B is being rebuilt from the core. Michael explains why budgets are shifting from media to infrastructure, how the funnel is being rewritten by agentic search, and where AI must move from efficiency to growth. We also cover the KPIs that matter, budgeting realism for 2026, and three things every CMO should know by the end of next year. Sponsored by Typeface—the agentic AI marketing platform helping brands turn one idea into thousands of on-brand experiences. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Chapters**

00:00 Intro + show setup

01:00 Sponsor: Typeface — agentic AI marketing, enterprise-grade & integrated

02:00 Guest intro: Michael Treff, CEO of Code and Theory

03:00 B2B landscape: investment shifts, changing journeys, disintermediation

07:00 From MQLs to value: sales enablement and end-to-end outcomes

10:00 Mid-roll: Typeface ARC agents & content lifecycle

11:00 Why suites win: implementation and value realization after the sale

15:00 AI phases: Wave 1 (efficiency) → Wave 2 (growth) pressures on agencies

17:00 CX as the bridge: measure outcomes, not vanity metrics

22:00 Roadmaps, humans, and culture—planning beyond point tools

26:00 Budget reality check: deliberation, polarization, and trade-offs

29:00 Personalization vs. business impact—what to fund and measure

33:00 By end of 2026: know your human plan, AI maturity, and new journeys

35:00 2026 prediction: the ROI vice tightens—agencies must be consultative

36:00 Closing advice: “Interrogate everything yourself.”

38:00 Wrap + where to find past episodes

39:00 Sponsor close: Typeface—see how ASICS & Microsoft scale personalization

**About our sponsor, Typeface**

@typefaceai is the first multimodal, agentic AI marketing platform that automates workflows from brief to launch, integrates with your MarTech stack, and delivers enterprise-grade security—named AI Company of the Year by Adweek and a TIME Best Invention. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Tags**

B2B marketing, enterprise marketing, customer experience, AI marketing, agentic AI, marketing ROI, sales enablement, Code and Theory, Michael Treff, Mike Linton, CMO strategy, marketing budget, personalization, Martech, Typeface

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Evan Wittenberg, Chief People Officer of VuMedi formerly CPO of Ancestry and Box, Google's Head of Leadership Development, and a Saturday Night Live Page. Evan discusses why HR has become a much tougher position over the last 5 years, AI's negative impact on leadership development, and the similarities between marketing and HR. Key topics include: his belief that every function should have a dedicated people partner; why "the burden of proof" is often higher for marketers; why he always interviews for "learning agility;" and why "doing the job you are hired for is better for your career than trying for "the next job." Tune in to hear questions marketers should ask in an interview and a great behind the scenes story from SNL Season 18.

**What HR Really Thinks About Marketing — Evan Wittenberg (CPO) on CMO Confidential**

Four-time Chief People Officer Evan Wittenberg sits down with host Mike Linton to unpack the real relationship between HR and Marketing: decision rights, how DEI evolves, AI’s impact on entry-level careers, why hybrid work threatens apprenticeship, and what great CMOs do differently at the exec table. Evan also shares hiring signals (what CPOs look for now), the right way to use engagement surveys, and a live-from-8H SNL story you won’t forget.

**Guest:** Evan Wittenberg — CPO (VuMedi; ex-Box, Ancestry, Pivot Bio; Google/Wharton leadership)

**Host:** Mike Linton — former CMO (Best Buy, eBay, Farmers), CRO (Ancestry)

**Chapters**

00:00 – Welcome + sponsor message (Typeface)

02:00 – Evan’s background and today’s HR reality

03:30 – “Seat at the table” meets burnout and intractable problems

04:40 – Inside the COVID pivot: who owned it and why HR took point

06:10 – Should HR own cross-functional crises? Coordination vs. ownership

07:10 – HR ↔ Marketing parallels: everyone has an opinion, few have the brief

09:00 – Sponsor break (Typeface)

10:00 – DEI after the backlash: belonging, equity, and business need

11:30 – Pay parity and what still isn’t fixed

12:00 – AI’s real risk: erasing entry-level ladders and craft-building

13:30 – Hybrid work, lost apprenticeship, and how leaders must respond

15:10 – “People are our #1 asset” (or not): how to actually tell

16:10 – HR nirvana: solutions that serve both the company and the person

18:00 – How HR sees Marketing: service vs. business driver

21:10 – What great CMOs do: range (data ↔ creative) and business framing

22:40 – At the exec table: problem → data → options → choice → execution

24:20 – The higher burden of proof for HR and Marketing

24:40 – Should Marketing have a dedicated HR/People partner?

26:10 – What CPOs now screen for: learning agility

28:00 – AI fluency: no tourists, hands-on only

29:10 – Real collaboration vs. heroics and end-runs

30:40 – Due diligence for candidates: decision rights & cross-functional buy-in

33:00 – Extra interview questions worth asking (on both sides)

34:10 – SNL cold open rescue: the Rob Schneider story

38:30 – Career advice: do the job you have at 120%

40:00 – Sponsor close + sign-off

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Evan Wittenberg, Chief People Officer, CPO, HR strategy, Marketing leadership, DEI, diversity equity inclusion, belonging, employee engagement, pay parity, hybrid work, return to office, mentorship, apprenticeship, AI in HR, AI in marketing, entry-level jobs, recruiting, learning agility, collaboration, decision rights, org design, people partner, HRBP, Box, Ancestry, Pivot Bio, Vmed, Google leadership, Wharton, SNL story, Rob Schneider, executive team, business outcomes, brand vs performance, Typeface, marketing operations, C-suite leadership, career advice

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Kip Knight, founder of CMO Coaches, former CMO of Taco Bell and H&R Block USPresident. Kip lays out the case for marketers to build their brands based on trust, authenticity and personal core principles along with an objective understanding of "what you are really famous for being able to accomplish." Key topics include: why executive presence matters; the combination of emotional IQ and curiosity; the need for resume "proof points;" and why role models matter. Tune in to hear networking tips, why you want to know what "they say about you when you aren't in the room" and the power of a handwritten thank you note.

Kip Knight (Founder, CMO Coaches; former Taco Bell CMO & H&R Block US Retail President) joins Mike Linton to get practical about building a durable *personal brand* as a marketing leader. We cover a three-step framework (self-assessment - positioning - activation), executive presence (IQ + EQ + CQ), how to lead with truth during tough calls, and why handwritten notes still matter.

Sponsored by Typeface — the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Key points**

• Personal brands aren’t accidental: in today’s AI-accelerated market, being findable and consistent is table stakes for senior roles.

• The framework: start with a rigorous self-assessment (360s, reviews, assessments), then define positioning around your true superpowers, and finally activate with proof points.

• Be objective: ambition without a strategy and measurable evidence sets you up to fail; build real proof points before you sell your story.

• Executive presence = IQ + EQ + CQ (curiosity). Lean into new tech (e.g., GenAI) and stay relentlessly curious.

• Truth is better than spin in crises: define reality, be transparent, and your team will follow you through hard decisions (e.g., headcount cuts).

• Culture is the stories told when you’re not in the room; leaders are “always on,” so model consistency and principle-led behavior.

• CMOs as business integrators: convene IT, Legal, Finance, HR, and the CEO to make the right GenAI bets with clear success criteria.

• Power move: send handwritten notes on high-quality stationery; the impact far exceeds email.

**Chapters**

00:00 Welcome + sponsor: Typeface — why brand still wins in the age of AI

03:00 Why your personal brand matters more than ever

06:00 Being findable & consistent in an AI world

07:00 The 3-part framework: self-assessment - positioning - activation

10:00 Doing an honest self-assessment (360s, reviews, Working Genius)

14:00 Turning strengths into positioning; knowing your kryptonite

16:00 Executive presence: IQ, EQ, and CQ (curiosity quotient)

20:00 Truth-telling vs. vulnerability during layoffs and tough calls

23:00 Role models, “always on” leadership, and culture as stories

29:00 CMOs as business integrators on GenAI — how to run the process

32:00 Networking that works: “How can I help you?”, warm intros, no ghosting

34:00 Elite habit: handwritten notes on great stationery (why it lands)

36:00 Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO,marketing leadership,personal brand,executive presence,brand strategy,career development,marketing careers,AI in marketing,agentic AI,Typeface,leadership,coaching,CMO Coaches,Kip Knight,Mike Linton,GenAI,networking,culture,trust,authenticity,handwritten notes,frameworks,positioning,activation,EQ,CQ,P&L,growth,enterprise marketing,YouTube podcast

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Mike Walrath, Chairman and CEO of Yext, Inc., formerly CEO of Right Media, and SVP at Yahoo! Mike discusses what he believes is the collapse of the marketing funnel, the need to understand how AI consumes data while judgement stays with consumers, and how an "influence marketing" mindset is emerging. Key topics include: why CMOs will need to be both great brand strategists as well as scientists, the need to constantly distribute information and "tend it like a garden," and why Reddit is great for training AI, but not as important in building brand influence. Tune in to hear a story about why you shouldn't let ChatGPT talk in an unsupervised forum and why Land Rover should send me a polo shirt.

This week, Mike Linton sits down with Mike Walrath, Chairman & CEO of @yext (and founder of WGI Group), to unpack why the classic awareness–consideration–conversion funnel is collapsing—and what CMOs must do next. From zero-click discovery and AI agents “front-ending” consumers to why structured first-party data now beats pretty websites, Walrath maps the new rules for brand, distribution, and measurement in an AI-led marketplace.

We cover: how consideration gets outsourced to AI, why marketers will “market to agents” (without controlling the ad copy), the coming arms race in citations and data distribution, and what organizational fixes boards and CMOs should make now. If you own brand, growth, or P&L accountability, this is a playbook for the next chapter.

**Sponsor — @typefaceai

Typeface helps the world’s biggest brands move from brief to fully personalized campaigns in hours, not months. With its agentic AI marketing platform, one idea scales into thousands of on-brand variations across ads, email, and video—integrated with your MarTech stack and secured for the enterprise. See how brands like ASICS and Microsoft are transforming marketing: typeface.ai/cmo.

Highlights

* Why “zero-click” compresses awareness and consideration inside AI experiences—and how to win the AI bake-off.

* The end of marketer-controlled ad copy; influence shifts to data quality, recency, and distribution.

* Memory and context change everything: agents know the consumer—and your brand—better than you think.

* Brand matters more, not less; without brand salience you won’t make the answer set.

* From content to data: make every spec, price, menu, inventory, policy, and promo machine-readable and syndicated.

* Citations, not vibes: first-party sites and listings dominate AI references; keep them fresh and authoritative.

* Org design: hire the data athletes, upgrade infrastructure, and instrument real conversion milestones (tests, visits, units).

New episodes every Tuesday on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify. If you find this useful, please like, subscribe, and share with your team.

**Guests**

Mike Walrath — Chairman & CEO, Yext; Founder, WGI Group.

Host: Mike Linton — former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance; former CRO, Ancestry.

CMO Confidential,marketing,CMO,chief marketing officer,AI marketing,agentic AI,marketing funnel,zero click,search,SEO,GenAI,LLM,brand strategy,performance marketing,Yext,Mike Walrath,Mike Linton,customer journey,personalization,content at scale,structured data,citations,data strategy,MarTech,go to market,GTM,board strategy,enterprise marketing,retail,automotive marketing,restaurants,media,advertising,Typeface sponsor,Typeface AI,typeface.ai/cmo

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Jim Lecinski, Clinical Professor of Marketing at the Kellogg School of Management, author, and former Google VP. Jim discusses why he believes marketers are often overly focused on using AI for productivity improvements versus business growth, the gaps between marketers and the C-Suite highlighted by recent Gartner research, and the difference between "big frontier models" and "shiny objects." Key topics include: why you should avoid "gray market AI", how to manage the 5 AI risks (privacy, accuracy, regulatory, personnel, and reputation), and the false precision that accompanies a focus on intermediate measures like Click Through Rate (CTR). Tune in to hear why he's not a fan of Cannes and how AI helped figure out a wedding invitation calling for "casual to semi-formal beach attire."

What should CMOs actually do with AI right now—and how do you avoid chasing shiny objects? Mike Linton sits down with Jim Lecinski, Professor of Marketing at Northwestern’s Kellogg School (and author of The AI Marketing Canvas and Winning the Zero Moment of Truth) to unpack the AI application layer: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Jim explains why CEOs-CFOs obsess over growth (not merely efficiency), how to reframe marketing dashboards around business outcomes, and his simple two-by-two for AI use cases (internal productivity vs. external value creation). We cover privacy, legal/regulatory, personnel, and reputational risks—and how to mitigate them—plus a pragmatic roadmap: center on a leading frontier model and layer vetted apps instead of stitching together fragile point solutions. Jim also shares candid takes on Cannes vs. Effies and ends with a challenge: personally build something with AI before year-end.

You’ll learn:

* Growth over cost-cutting: aligning with CEO-CFO priorities and measuring ends, not means

* The AI use-case 2×2: internal productivity vs. external, customer-facing value creation

* Practical examples (e.g., apparel personalization) that lift CSAT, CLV, and revenue

* The 5 risk buckets (privacy, accuracy, regulatory-IP, personnel, reputation) and guardrails

* How to choose core models (GPT, Gemini, Claude) and avoid “tool soup”

* Why awards that honor outcomes beat awards that celebrate activity

Guest: Jim Lecinski — Professor of Marketing, Northwestern Kellogg; former VP Customer Solutions (Americas) at Google; author of The AI Marketing Canvas (2nd ed.) & Winning the Zero Moment of Truth.

Host: Mike Linton — former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance; CRO of Ancestry.com.

Sponsor: Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at (https://www.quad.com/resources/research-and-tools/return-of-touch-consumer-engagement-has-an-omnichannel-revival?utm_source=cmoconfidential&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=001_brand&utm_id=podcastnl1031&utm_content=a-paidemail&utm_vp=)

If you’re enjoying the show, please like, subscribe, and share with your leadership team. New episodes every Tuesday; companion newsletter on Fridays.

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"Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales, and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard starts with the basics of salary, bonus and equity and branches out to compensation mix, the various types of equity, negotiating best practices, and the "other" elements of an offer. Key topics include: why the devil is in the details; when and how to discuss compensation; the difference between dumb luck and bad luck; and why everyone should do a "multi-year cash flow analysis." Tune in to hear why you should always read the proxy statement and the importance of being prepared to explain how you are using AI.

In Part 2, host Mike Linton sits back down with Spencer Stuart Practice Leader Richard Sanderson to get tactical about comp negotiations, severance, equity, and managing your team through pay anxiety. If you’re a CMO (or headed there), this episode is your field guide to securing a fair offer and stewarding compensation conversations with your org.

Points of interest:

• Your moment of maximum leverage: why the verbal offer is the prime time to align on comp—and how to use that window without damaging trust.

• How different companies negotiate: spotting “full & fair” one-shot offers vs. multi-round negotiators—and how to work the process with your recruiter as a broker to keep heat and emotion out.

• Beyond base and bonus: what’s often negotiable (e.g., severance, sign-on/bridge, relocation, start date, work location, travel, even one-offs) and how to prioritize your asks.

• Severance norms & timing: what policies typically look like (e.g., 6–12 months in many cases), when to ask, and why it’s safest through the recruiter.

• Feeling underpaid? Building a data-backed case with market signals, peer benchmarks, recruiter insight—and how proxy statements can ground internal conversations.

• Underwater equity & team morale: acknowledging pain, reframing to a long-term vision, and understanding annual equity refresh dynamics (timing matters).

• Do the 5-year cash-flow analysis: compare current state vs. new offer (vesting, cliffs, bridge needs) so you don’t get surprised in Year 1–2.

• Today’s relocation reality: mortgage-rate math and why moves can be financially punitive—plan your package accordingly.

• Offer etiquette & reputation risk: why turning down a written offer is a red flag on process—and why reneging after signing can follow you.

• Be ready for the AI question: every senior marketing interview now probes AI use cases, impact, and CFO alignment—have crisp examples.

Sponsored by Quad

Marketing only works when everything works together. Quad helps your marketing machine run with less friction and smarter integration—so you get speed, efficiency, and ROI. Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at www.quad.com/buildbetter.

If you missed Part 1, go watch that next—then subscribe for weekly conversations with leaders who’ve sat in the CMO chair.

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