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  • Pete Imwalle | Former CEO, RPA | Agency Economics in the Age of AI

    Pete Imwalle | Former CEO, RPA | Agency Economics in the Age of AI
    2026/02/10

    A CMO Confidential Interview with Pete Imwalla, former CEO of RPA and 4A's board member. Pete shares his take on how many tech changes resulted in additional agency headcount, how AI is rapidly reversing that trend, and why many agency valuations have dropped significantly over the last 5 years. Key topics include: why brand building is like infrastructure; how Publicis is bucking the trend; how to think about "in-housing;" and why Paul Roetzer's CMO 2023 CMO Confidential show was prescient. Tune in to hear about the "2nd mover advantage" and why he hates the concept of "future proofing."


    Agency economics are getting rewritten in the age of AI. Mike Linton sits down with Pete Imwalle 32-year RPA veteran and former CEO to dissect what’s changing—and what leaders should do about it. They cover the shift from reach to relevance, why FTE-based fees are misaligned in an AI world, how to separate automation from actual advantage, and where in-housing does and doesn’t work. Along the way: the sustained business impact of the Farmers “We know a thing or two…” campaign, the rise of agentic workflows, and why “future-proofing” starts with culture, not clairvoyance.


    Chapters

    00:00:00 – Cold open + show setup

    00:00:22 – Mike’s intro, Pete’s background, and today’s topic

    00:01:18 – Farmers campaign wins Sustained Effie) and effectiveness creativity

    00:02:18 – 30 years of change: from Prodigy/AOL/CompuServe to Netscape and the open web

    00:03:24 – Google + broadband: when digital finally changed consumer behavior

    00:04:33 – Mobile’s second wave and the trap of “mobile-first/AI-first” strategies

    00:06:01 – How agencies adapted: leadership, curiosity, and tolerance for experimentation

    00:07:42 – Investing ahead of revenue: offense + defense in capability building

    00:08:22 – Reach fragmentation: from “40% on Cheers” to only the Super Bowl

    00:09:18 – The real squeeze: boards treating advertising as expense, not investment

    00:10:13 – Short-termism, PE/VC incentives, and brand vs. performance

    00:12:21 – “Adapt or die”: AI as an extinction event? (hat tip: Paul Roetzer)

    00:13:28 – Agentic workflows: shrinking grunt work (esp. media & strategy ops)

    00:16:00 – Client asks: “give me savings, don’t risk my IP”

    00:16:36 – Why FTE pricing disincentivizes efficiency; pay for outcomes instead

    00:17:51 – Three futures: AI-native, AI-emergent, or obsolete

    00:21:39 – Holding-company moves; why Publicis is outpacing peers

    00:22:00 – Agency valuations: ~40% decline over five years; second-mover advantage in AI

    00:26:37 – In-housing: when it works, when it backfires, and true cost to own

    00:28:48 – Build vs. buy: amortization, maintenance, and staying current

    00:30:16 – The Geico lesson: investing through the curve until returns flatten

    00:31:22 – What to test by EOY 2026: culture, change management, and low-hanging automation

    00:34:02 – Ditch “future-proofing”; hire for curiosity and adaptability

    00:35:35 – Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential



    Tags

    CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Pete Imwalle,RPA,agency economics,advertising,marketing leadership,AI in marketing,agentic workflows,media planning,marketing strategy,brand vs performance,FTE pricing,procurement,in-housing,holding companies,Publicis,Omnicom,Super Bowl ads,Effie Awards,Farmers Insurance campaign,Geico case study,change management,digital transformation,marketing AI,MarTech,measurement,short term vs long term,CMO,CEO,CFO,board governance

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    40 分
  • James Shira | What Your CIO Wants to Tell You But Won't | Principal, Global CIO and Global CISO, PwC

    James Shira | What Your CIO Wants to Tell You But Won't | Principal, Global CIO and Global CISO, PwC
    2026/02/03

    A CMO Confidential Interview with James Shira, Principal, Global and US CIO and Global CISO at PwC. James details how @PwC is running an "AI marketplace" within the company which features a number of models, his focus on scale, security, and user experience, and the case for approaching AI with a "humility" mindset. Key topics include: how the CISO (Chief Information Security Officer) balances rapid enablement and security needs; why CMO's should have a working knowledge of the technology roadmap; and tips for aligning with your CIO. Tune in to hear how to "go rogue" if you must and a story about socks.


    Sponsored by Scrunch AI: learn more here → https://www.scrunchai.com/cmo


    Global CIO & CISO James Shira joins Mike to decode what your CIO wishes you knew—AI adoption, security trade-offs, model “marketplaces,” and how CMOs should really partner with IT. Concrete guidance on prioritization, tech stack decisions, legacy constraints, and when “going rogue” is justified. Practical, senior-level playbook for winning with AI without lighting money—or trust—on fire.


    **Chapters**

    00:00 – Welcome & setup: “What your CIO wants to tell you, but won’t”

    01:15 – The AI era: pace, complexity, stakeholder pressure

    03:24 – Humility first: why being late to AI isn’t OK

    04:09 – Designing for scale, security, and real user adoption at PwC

    06:00 – Building a model “marketplace” (40+ models) & minimum bars

    07:27 – Guardrails: encryption, data governance, and safe experimentation

    09:32 – Adoption reality: super-users, skeptics, and moving the middle

    11:00 – What “leading” looks like: C-suite prioritization & high-value use cases

    13:00 – CISO shift: from gatekeeper to enabler; managing Kobayashi-Maru choices

    16:59 – How marketers help: anticipate CIO/CISO problems, simplify choices

    19:00 – MarTech the smart way: align to architecture, reduce sprawl, bring options

    22:00 – No IT dance partner? Work with COO/CFO; standardize and choose fit over “sexy”

    24:33 – Legacy estates: outsource vs. “AI-ify” retained work; show ROI math

    26:29 – When to go rogue—and how not to get fired doing it

    31:00 – Free advice to agencies: do the work, bring substance, not spam

    32:00 – Closing & funniest story (Zurich board-meeting socks)


    CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,James Shira,PwC,CIO,CISO,AI,GenAI,AI adoption,AI governance,cybersecurity,enterprise IT,MarTech,marketing technology,tech stack,cloud strategy,data governance,model marketplace,digital transformation,change management,prioritization,COO,CFO,CapEx,legacy modernization,outsourcing,automation,meeting summaries,audit,experimentation,go rogue,executive leadership,marketing strategy,enterprise software,boardroom,CMO tips

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    39 分
  • Rob Ward | A Top Venture Capitalist Analyzes the AI Landscape | Co-founder GP | Meritech Capital

    Rob Ward | A Top Venture Capitalist Analyzes the AI Landscape | Co-founder GP | Meritech Capital
    2026/01/27
    A CMO Confidential Interview with Rob Ward, co-founder and General Partner of Meritech Capital, a top Silicon Valley venture firm. Rob shares his take on what he calls a "super terrifying and exciting time" and provides perspective on AI receiving the most capital of any technology in history, the "durability of revenue" and how quickly start-ups are now reaching $100 million in revenue. Key topics include: why VC's focus on growth vs. profitability; the risks associated with massive long-term capital investment; why marketers should pick a "trusted advisor" as their AI partner; and why your data strategy needs "context. Tune in to hear how Astronomer handled the "Coldplay Concert Incident" which immediately became a PR classic and the "VC Foie Gras Effect."What happens when a top venture capitalist pulls back the curtain on AI, valuations, hype cycles, and what’s actually working?In this episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with Rob Ward, Co-Founder and General Partner at Metech Capital, to unpack the realities behind the AI boom. Rob has spent more than 26 years investing in category-defining companies like Facebook (Meta), Snowflake, NetSuite, Zipcar, and Cloudera — and he brings a rare, grounded perspective to today’s AI frenzy.Together, they explore: • Why AI adoption is still early — despite explosive growth • The real risks behind inflated valuations and “AI-washing” • How VC decision-making changes during platform shifts • What marketers and executives should actually look for when choosing AI partners • Why data strategy, change management, and trust matter more than tools • What layoffs, productivity, and the future of work really look like beneath the headlines • A masterclass in crisis communications, featuring Ryan Reynolds, Gwyneth Paltrow, and ColdplayIf you’re a CMO, CEO, board member, founder, or agency leader trying to make sense of AI without getting swept up in the hype — this is a must-listen conversation.New episodes of CMO Confidential drop every Tuesday.Subscribe for insider perspectives on the most misunderstood role in the C-suite.⸻Chapter Markers00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential00:19 – Introducing Rob Ward and today’s AI conversation01:13 – Where we really are in AI adoption02:26 – Explosive AI growth: what’s real vs hype03:35 – Why enterprise AI adoption is still a slog04:37 – Vendor spend, hyperscalers, and the trillion-dollar buildout06:12 – Is this an AI bubble? Public vs private market realities07:20 – Accelerating investment rounds and lack of diligence08:12 – AI-washing and durability of AI businesses09:46 – Proof-of-concepts, switching costs, and fragile loyalty10:55 – Big Tech vs startups: why this cycle is different11:40 – Why VCs chase platform shifts despite the risks13:05 – How AI is changing profitability and headcount math16:11 – “FOGRA” investing and capital distortion17:00 – Circular investing and data-center risk18:23 – Data centers, GPUs, and betting on the wrong future19:38 – Credit default swaps and financial warning signs21:45 – How executives should choose AI vendors22:58 – Change management and why culture matters most24:09 – Why data strategy is the real AI strategy26:36 – “Frequently wrong, never in doubt” and AI hallucinations27:01 – Practical AI use cases for marketers30:00 – Layoffs, productivity, and what’s really happening to jobs33:05 – The best questions to spot real AI fluency35:00 – AI safety, geopolitics, and long-term risks36:38 – Crisis management masterclass: Astronomer, Coldplay & Ryan Reynolds39:58 – Final advice and closing thoughts⸻Comma-Separated TagsCMO Confidential, AI strategy, artificial intelligence, venture capital, Rob Ward, Metech Capital, AI adoption, AI hype, AI bubble, enterprise AI, generative AI, AI in marketing, CMO leadership, marketing leadership, venture investing, AI vendors, data strategy, change management, AI readiness, tech valuations, AI infrastructure, data centers, future of work, AI layoffs, crisis communications, brand crisis management, Ryan Reynolds marketing, Gwyneth Paltrow Astronomer, Coldplay controversy, Silicon Valley, marketing podcast, C-suite leadershipSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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    41 分
  • Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay

    Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay
    2026/01/20
    "Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay"A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales, and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard starts with the basics of salary, bonus and equity and branches out to compensation mix, the various types of equity, negotiating best practices, and the "other" elements of an offer. Key topics include: why the devil is in the details; when and how to discuss compensation; the difference between dumb luck and bad luck; and why everyone should do a "multi-year cash flow analysis." Tune in to hear why you should always read the proxy statement and the importance of being prepared to explain how you are using AI.*Dissecting CMO Compensation with Richard Sanderson (Spencer Stuart) — Salary, Bonus, Equity & Negotiation Playbook*What’s “market” for a modern CMO, and how do you actually negotiate it? Richard Sanderson, who leads Spencer Stuart’s Marketing, Communications & Sales Practice, breaks down the three pillars of pay (salary, bonus, equity), compensation mix by ownership model, and the real rules of negotiating offers, severance, and forfeitures. We also tackle vesting, RSUs vs. options vs. PSUs, what to ask recruiters (legally) about pay ranges, how to manage your team when equity is underwater, and why every CMO needs crisp AI impact stories in interviews. Actionable, candid, and built for executives who make or take offers. *Chapters*00:00 Intro — Welcome to CMO Confidential & Richard’s background01:50 Why comp is hard to decode (and why it matters)02:12 The building blocks: salary, bonus, equity03:21 The data gap: only ~4% of F1000 list marketing leaders as NEOs04:26 Salary basics, bands, and industry norms05:35 Bonus mechanics & the one question to ask (3-year payout history)06:38 Equity 101 — long-term incentives and where value really accrues07:25 Compensation mix: public, PE, private, nonprofit08:25 Geography effect — US vs. Europe on equity weighting09:23 RSUs explained (and why they always have some value)10:19 Options & strike prices — upside vs. “underwater” risk10:57 PSUs — performance gates, accelerators, and board metrics12:17 Vesting types: time, performance, and event-based triggers13:15 Forfeitures if you leave early (and what’s negotiable)15:09 Negotiating framework — timing, laws, posture16:34 When to talk comp without signaling “it’s just the money”17:58 Pay transparency laws — expectations vs. history; what recruiters can ask20:23 Forfeitures checklist: bonus timing, unvested equity, make-wholes21:36 Know your company’s rules (eligibility dates, presence requirements)22:36 Smart pushback: asking for the range and reducing info asymmetry23:47 Your moment of max leverage: the verbal offer27:58 Beyond pay: severance, sign-on, relocation, start date, perks29:00 CMO tenure math and why severance matters32:31 “Am I underpaid?” How to build a real case34:34 Managing your team through pay angst & proxy transparency36:29 Underwater equity — empathy, vision, and refresh cycles38:22 Timing luck: annual grants & market swings (“Liberation Day” example)40:00 Do the 5-year cash-flow comparison (and bridge Year 1–2)42:04 The new relocation math (mortgages & cost deltas)43:06 Titles, reporting lines, non-competes, and day-one docs43:50 Should you ever turn down a written offer?45:23 The reputational risk of reneging47:05 Be ready: the AI question in every CMO interview48:32 Wrap*Tags*CMO Confidential, Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart, CMO compensation, executive pay, salary bands, bonus plans, equity RSUs, stock options, PSUs, vesting, severance, negotiation, forfeitures, compensation mix, private equity, public companies, proxy statements, pay transparency laws, marketing leadership, executive recruiting, board compensation, make-whole bonus, cash flow analysis, AI in marketingSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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    49 分
  • Alex Schultz | CMO at Meta | Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"

    Alex Schultz | CMO at Meta | Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"
    2026/01/13

    "Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"

    A CMO Confidential Interview with Alex Schultz, the Meta CMO and VP of Analytics, and author of Click Here: The Art & Science of Digital Marketing and Advertising. Alex details why he believes in decentralized analytics and the importance of focusing on core results vs vanity metrics, why AI is a "threshold technology", and why and how the company transitioned to Meta. Key topics include: the barbell distribution of AI competency (native users and very senior experienced leaders); why he believes so strongly in "incrementality measurements"; how he and his team handle the emotional impact of being in the center of political discussions and; why marketers should be thinking about 2027. Tune in to hear a story about affiliate marketing incentives gone wrong and the eBay/Google "Tea Party" incident.



    What’s it really like to be CMO at one of the most scrutinized companies in the world?


    In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host Mike Linton sits down with **Alex Schultz**, CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta, for a wide-ranging, unfiltered conversation on marketing leadership inside the eye of the storm. Alex breaks down how Meta structures marketing and analytics at global scale, why marketing must be centralized while analytics should not, and what most companies get wrong about “one source of truth.”


    The conversation goes deep on navigating nonstop political and cultural pressure, shortening negative news cycles, and keeping teams emotionally grounded when the brand is under fire. Alex also shares some of the clearest executive thinking we’ve heard on AI as a *threshold technology* — where it truly creates leverage, where humans must stay in the loop, and how CMOs should assess AI talent today.


    The episode closes with inside stories from the Facebook-to-Meta rebrand, hard-earned lessons from eBay on incrementality measurement, and practical advice for preparing your organization for 2027 and beyond.


    If you’re a CMO, CEO, founder, or senior operator responsible for growth, measurement, and brand under pressure — this is required listening.


    New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.


    ---


    ## Chapters & Timestamps


    00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

    00:01 – Alex Schultz’s role: CMO & VP of Analytics at Meta

    00:03 – Why marketing is centralized but analytics are decentralized

    00:06 – “One source of truth” and killing vanity metrics

    00:09 – Marketing while constantly in the global spotlight

    00:11 – Managing crisis cycles, truth, and comms alignment

    00:12 – AI’s real impact on marketing productivity

    00:15 – AI as a threshold technology (precision vs. recall)

    00:17 – How AI is reshaping analytics, creative, and teams

    00:18 – Hiring for AI: the barbell talent distribution

    00:22 – Preparing for 2027: information flow and AI philosophy

    00:25 – How B2B marketing is (and isn’t) changing

    00:28 – Inside the Facebook → Meta rebrand

    00:32 – Lessons from eBay: incrementality over last-click

    00:36 – What downturns reveal about leadership talent

    00:37 – Why Alex wrote his book on digital marketing

    00:40 – Affiliate marketing, incentives, and unintended consequences

    00:43 – Final advice for CMOs and marketers


    ---



    CMO Confidential, Alex Schultz, Meta marketing, Facebook Meta rebrand, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, executive marketing, analytics strategy, marketing analytics, AI in marketing, artificial intelligence marketing, incrementality measurement, digital marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth marketing, brand under pressure, crisis communications, marketing measurement, performance marketing, last click attribution, marketing org design, marketing podcast


    --

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    45 分
  • DJ Patil | An Update From the Front Lines of AI - A Perspective From Spock on the Bridge

    DJ Patil | An Update From the Front Lines of AI - A Perspective From Spock on the Bridge
    2026/01/06

    A CMO Confidential Interview with DJ Patil, Great Point Ventures investor and former U.S. Chief Data Scientist in the Obama Administration. DJ discusses why AI adoption is "lumpy" like unbaked cake mix, the difference between large models and focused applications, and why consultants are probably not the best way to make progress. Key topics include: Maslow's Hierarchy of AI with power, data and water as the foundation; a timeline juxtaposition of AI evolution versus culture and policy change; and his belief that marketers have a unique position to add "human connectivity" in to the mix. Tune in to hear a view on AI and health care as well as how Waymo almost ruined a date night.



    What does AI adoption *really* look like inside large organizations—and why does it feel so uneven?


    In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host **Mike Linton** sits down with **DJ Patil**—former U.S. Chief Data Scientist, AI leader at eBay and LinkedIn, and longtime advisor and investor—for a clear-eyed update from the front lines of AI.


    DJ explains why AI progress feels “lumpy,” why culture—not technology—is the biggest blocker to ROI, and what boards, CEOs, and CMOs must do now to avoid falling behind. From autonomous warfare and small models to Wall Street hype cycles, job displacement, and what AI means for the future of marketing, this is a practical, executive-level conversation about what’s real, what’s noise, and what comes next.


    If you lead a company, manage a brand, sit on a board, or are building a career in marketing, this episode will recalibrate how you think about AI adoption, investment, and organizational change.


    🎧 New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.


    ---


    Chapters / Timestamps


    00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

    00:32 – Introducing DJ Patil and today’s AI focus

    01:26 – Where are we really on the AI adoption curve?

    02:54 – Why AI progress feels “lumpy” across industries

    03:35 – AI fluency vs. AI-native talent

    05:22 – AI in education: banning it vs. embracing it

    05:57 – AI on the battlefield: Ukraine, drones, and autonomy

    07:50 – Big models vs. small models and open source AI

    08:12 – The AI investment landscape and industry chaos

    09:12 – AI breakthroughs in math and problem-solving

    10:52 – Where AI is actually delivering value today

    11:50 – ROI, hype cycles, and Amara’s Law

    13:46 – When AI savings really show up on the balance sheet

    15:17 – Why culture is the biggest blocker to AI success

    16:03 – AI speed vs. slow-moving organizations and policy

    18:13 – Why executives can’t delegate AI leadership

    19:56 – The limits of traditional consulting for AI

    22:41 – Job cuts, automation, and what AI is really replacing

    25:48 – Why AI isn’t “ready” yet—but is getting close

    26:32 – AI as the biggest prize in the history of capitalism

    27:18 – Where DJ Patil is investing in AI

    29:00 – AI opportunities in healthcare and government

    30:27 – What AI means for marketers and marketing careers

    34:10 – A Waymo story: the promise and imperfections of AI

    35:12 – Final thoughts and where to find more episodes


    ---




    CMO Confidential, DJ Patil, Mike Linton, AI adoption, artificial intelligence strategy, AI for executives, AI and marketing, AI ROI, AI investment, AI leadership, AI culture, future of marketing, chief marketing officer, CMO podcast, executive podcast, boardroom strategy, AI transformation, AI jobs, AI and automation, AI in healthcare, AI governance, enterprise AI, AI fluency, AI native, tech leadership, data science, digital transformation

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    36 分
  • Dick Satterfield | Could I, Would I, Should I Leave? - A Career Management Discussion

    Dick Satterfield | Could I, Would I, Should I Leave? - A Career Management Discussion
    2025/12/30

    A CMO Confidential interview with Dick Satterfield, the founder of Satterfield Rezenbrink Search and former P&G sales leader. Dick discusses career management under the framework of "successful and happy" and outlines why you should constantly be thinking about and evaluating your career. Key topics include why career progression is defined as continuous learning and getting promoted, tips for networking, when is too early or too late to leave, and why counter offers almost always fail . Listen in to hear why you should view the "next job" as a stepping stone versus the perfect landing.



    Dick Satterfield, veteran executive recruiter and former P&G sales leader, breaks down when to leave, how to create real options, and what it takes to land (and succeed in) your next role. We cover the “successful and happy” framework, real vs. faux promotions, how to run a stealth search while employed, the truth about counteroffers, and why marketers must present as business leaders driving revenue and efficiency. Practical, no-nonsense advice for CMOs, aspiring CMOs, and any exec managing a high-stakes career.


    Chapters

    00:00 Intro: CMO Confidential + today’s topic

    00:00:43 Meet Dick Satterfield + why this conversation matters

    00:02:11 Framework: “Are you successful and happy?”

    00:03:39 What recruiters really scan first: promotions and scope

    00:05:38 Real vs. “quasi-fake” promotions (one direct report ≠ management)

    00:05:59 Could I leave? Too early vs. too late; the commuting rule of 3

    00:08:12 Knowing when your learning curve has flattened

    00:10:24 Would I leave? How to search while employed (and build leverage)

    00:12:25 Target list → warm intros → the right recruiters

    00:14:31 Time management for the search (30 minutes a day)

    00:15:14 If you’re in transition: process, momentum, and managing home life

    00:17:21 Offers: optimize for where you’re most likely to succeed

    00:19:31 Interview the company: decision speed and what success looks like

    00:21:00 Counteroffers: why ~85% don’t stick

    00:22:38 Negotiating severance (and when it actually gets set)

    00:24:00 Biggest career mistake: not managing your career like a project

    00:25:00 For marketers: be a business leader, not “just” marketing

    00:26:13 Practical closer: return recruiter calls—before you need them

    00:26:55 Wrap


    Tags

    CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Dick Satterfield,executive search,career management,career strategy,CMO career,marketing leadership,job search,career progression,promotions,scope of responsibility,learning curve,commuting rules,hybrid work,networking,warm introductions,recruiters,retained search,counteroffers,severance negotiation,compensation,offer negotiation,interview tips,decision rights,success metrics,marketing as investment,top line growth,cost efficiency,business leader,P&G,Procter & Gamble,board ready,executive transitions,VP marketing,chief marketing officer,senior leadership,career mistakes,practical advice

    See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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    27 分
  • The Top 5 Mistakes CEOs and Boards Make When Hiring CMOs | Kate Bullis - David Wiser | ZRG Partners

    The Top 5 Mistakes CEOs and Boards Make When Hiring CMOs | Kate Bullis - David Wiser | ZRG Partners
    2025/12/23

    A CMO Confidential Interview with Kate Bullis and David Wiser, Managing Partners and Global Marketing Practice Leaders for ZRG Partners. Kate and David translate their extensive search experience to classify common mistakes into "movie themes" and share tips on how to recognize if you are directing or reading for a part in a disaster film. From "Play It Again, Sam," to "No, No, It's Really A CMO Role!" to "Death by Committee!" they describe the all-too-familiar plotlines and how to tear apart the hype from the facts. Hints: Look at the dashboard, listen to the questions and beware of the "Hands on the keyboard" role. Tune in to hear why companies should focus on outcomes versus qualifications and why you should always check your Zoom background.



    What are the five bad “movies” CEOs and boards keep remaking when they hire CMOs—and how do you avoid starring in one? Mike Linton sits down with ZRG Partners’ Kate Bullis and David Wiser to unpack 2025’s CMO market, why early-stage hiring should rebound, and how capital and IPO activity reset expectations from “profit at all costs” back to growth. They break down the most common failure modes—chasing a playbook, hiring an “orchestra,” titling a demand-gen job as “CMO,” forcing marketing to “stay in its lane,” and letting committees kill momentum—and the exact questions candidates and CEOs should ask to surface scope, KPIs, authority, and alignment.


    You’ll hear red flags like “hands-on keyboard,” why the KPI dashboard effectively *is* the job description, and how cross-functional interviews reveal whether a CMO will be a strategist or an order taker. David and Kate close with urgency discipline for searches and a three-year business-back plan for defining the role.



    CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, ZRG Partners, Kate Bullis, David Wiser, CMO hiring, marketing leadership, executive search, CEO, board of directors, hiring mistakes, KPI dashboard, hands-on-keyboard, demand generation, brand vs performance, org design, stay in your lane, death by committee, playbook vs framework, 2025 job market, private equity, IPOs, marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth vs profitability


    ---

    Chapters


    00:00 – Welcome & show setup

    01:08 – Meet Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)

    01:32 – 2025 CMO job market outlook

    02:56 – Where hiring rebounds first (startups vs. public)

    04:24 – From profitability snapback to growth focus

    05:35 – Theme 1: “Play it again, Sam” (playbook thinking)

    06:48 – Frameworks over playbooks: why “fetch” fails

    08:16 – KPIs as the real scope: the dashboard test

    10:08 – Theme 2: “I want the orchestra” (do-it-all CMO)

    12:44 – Red flag: “hands-on keyboard” and checkbox hiring

    14:19 – Theme 3: “No, really, it’s a CMO role” (but it’s demand gen)

    15:31 – B2B trap: title inflation and scope mismatch

    18:25 – Measure what matters: aligning title, work, and KPIs

    19:00 – Theme 4: “Stay in your lane” (the Yes Center)

    20:20 – Sales/product-driven constraints and influence

    22:00 – Theme 5: “Death by committee” (misalignment & vetoes)

    23:18 – Fixing alignment: who decides and how

    25:26 – Why bad movies still get made: urgency and drift

    27:54 – The other mistake: lack of urgency in searches

    28:43 – Funniest recruiting moments (Zoom era)

    30:21 – Practical advice: define the next 3 years, then the role

    31:29 – Wrap and where to listen

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    32 分