A CMO Confidential Interview with Pete Imwalla, former CEO of RPA and 4A's board member. Pete shares his take on how many tech changes resulted in additional agency headcount, how AI is rapidly reversing that trend, and why many agency valuations have dropped significantly over the last 5 years. Key topics include: why brand building is like infrastructure; how Publicis is bucking the trend; how to think about "in-housing;" and why Paul Roetzer's CMO 2023 CMO Confidential show was prescient. Tune in to hear about the "2nd mover advantage" and why he hates the concept of "future proofing."

Agency economics are getting rewritten in the age of AI. Mike Linton sits down with Pete Imwalle 32-year RPA veteran and former CEO to dissect what’s changing—and what leaders should do about it. They cover the shift from reach to relevance, why FTE-based fees are misaligned in an AI world, how to separate automation from actual advantage, and where in-housing does and doesn’t work. Along the way: the sustained business impact of the Farmers “We know a thing or two…” campaign, the rise of agentic workflows, and why “future-proofing” starts with culture, not clairvoyance.

Chapters

00:00:00 – Cold open + show setup

00:00:22 – Mike’s intro, Pete’s background, and today’s topic

00:01:18 – Farmers campaign wins Sustained Effie) and effectiveness creativity

00:02:18 – 30 years of change: from Prodigy/AOL/CompuServe to Netscape and the open web

00:03:24 – Google + broadband: when digital finally changed consumer behavior

00:04:33 – Mobile’s second wave and the trap of “mobile-first/AI-first” strategies

00:06:01 – How agencies adapted: leadership, curiosity, and tolerance for experimentation

00:07:42 – Investing ahead of revenue: offense + defense in capability building

00:08:22 – Reach fragmentation: from “40% on Cheers” to only the Super Bowl

00:09:18 – The real squeeze: boards treating advertising as expense, not investment

00:10:13 – Short-termism, PE/VC incentives, and brand vs. performance

00:12:21 – “Adapt or die”: AI as an extinction event? (hat tip: Paul Roetzer)

00:13:28 – Agentic workflows: shrinking grunt work (esp. media & strategy ops)

00:16:00 – Client asks: “give me savings, don’t risk my IP”

00:16:36 – Why FTE pricing disincentivizes efficiency; pay for outcomes instead

00:17:51 – Three futures: AI-native, AI-emergent, or obsolete

00:21:39 – Holding-company moves; why Publicis is outpacing peers

00:22:00 – Agency valuations: ~40% decline over five years; second-mover advantage in AI

00:26:37 – In-housing: when it works, when it backfires, and true cost to own

00:28:48 – Build vs. buy: amortization, maintenance, and staying current

00:30:16 – The Geico lesson: investing through the curve until returns flatten

00:31:22 – What to test by EOY 2026: culture, change management, and low-hanging automation

00:34:02 – Ditch “future-proofing”; hire for curiosity and adaptability

00:35:35 – Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Pete Imwalle,RPA,agency economics,advertising,marketing leadership,AI in marketing,agentic workflows,media planning,marketing strategy,brand vs performance,FTE pricing,procurement,in-housing,holding companies,Publicis,Omnicom,Super Bowl ads,Effie Awards,Farmers Insurance campaign,Geico case study,change management,digital transformation,marketing AI,MarTech,measurement,short term vs long term,CMO,CEO,CFO,board governance

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