Alexander Kuilman works with CEOs and executive teams to bring more humanity into how they lead. He joins Henrik and Jeremy to explore why, if leaders know AI matters, getting people to actually use it can still be so difficult.

Using Bob Kegan and Lisa Lahey’s Immunity to Change framework, Alex argues that “I don’t have time” can mask deeper fears about competence, relevance, and what happens when AI can do work you previously thought made you valuable. They also explore why psychological safety matters if people are going to admit what they don’t know and actually experiment.

The conversation ends with the “AI vampire” and Alex’s idea of “corporate numbing”: AI makes us more productive, but instead of taking the time back, we often fill it with more work. Which leaves a bigger question: when AI gives us time back, what do we actually want to do with it?

Key Takeaways:

• AI resistance may be about fear, not time
  “I don’t have time” can mask deeper fears about competence, relevance, and what happens when AI can do work you thought made you valuable.
• People need to feel safe enough to experiment
  Psychological safety gives people room to admit what they don’t know, try something new, and risk looking incompetent.
• How leaders make people feel matters
  Henrik and Jeremy realize that some of the AI leaders they admire don’t just have good tactics. They make people around them feel safe enough to try.
• Don’t let AI give you more work
  The “AI vampire” turns productivity gains into more work. Alex’s idea of “corporate numbing” asks whether staying busy is sometimes easier than deciding what we actually want to do with the time AI gives back. Alex Kuilman (transcript - fina…

The Practice: bethepractice.com
Alex's LinkedIn: LinkedIn/AlexKuilman
Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan & Lisa Laskow
Amy Edmondson on Psychological Safety: Psychological Safety

00:00 Intro: The Problem of Corporate Numbing
00:23 Meet Alexander Kuilman
04:45 Why Aren’t People Using AI More?
06:49 The Hidden Assumptions Blocking Change
08:08 Jeremy’s Travel Problem
14:12 What Are People Really Afraid of With AI?
16:02 Stop Making Time to Experiment
22:25 Psychological Safety and AI Adoption
32:56 How to Hold Yourself
38:57 The Leaders Who Make People Feel Safe
40:33 What If AI Helps Us Think Less?
44:13 The AI Vampire
46:10 Corporate Numbing
54:08 Your Humanity Is the Advantage
58:05 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Jim VandeHei joins Henrik and Jeremy around the launch of his new book, Simplify: Do 50% More With 50% Less, co-authored with Mike Allen and Roy Schwartz. In the conversation, Jim shares how he’s leading Axios through AI, from turning himself into an “AI lab rat” to rethinking how the company works.

At Axios, Jim gave everyone access to ChatGPT, brought in training, and invited employees who took naturally to the technology to help others across the company. He also shares how AI fellows working directly with him prototype new ideas, why companies should delete unnecessary work before automating it, and how Axios is preparing for a world where more information moves from the open web into social platforms and personalized LLMs.

The conversation ends with a bigger question: what story are we telling people about an AI-enabled future? Jim worries that the negative case for AI is vivid and easy to understand, while the positive case often amounts to curing cancer or eliminating work. He makes the case for something more tangible: using AI to make people’s work and lives better while preserving human connection and the feeling that what people do still matters.

Jim's new book: Simplify: Do 50% more with 50% less
“Confessions of an AI Lab Rat”: Read here!
Axios: Axios.com
Jim's LinkedIn: LinkedIn.com/JimVandeHei

Key Takeaways

• Leaders need to become AI lab rats
  Leaders need firsthand experience with AI to understand what it can do and give others permission to experiment.
• Give the CEO an AI “SEAL team”
  Jim’s AI fellows help him prototype ideas quickly, stay current, and experiment outside the normal company processes.
• Delete before you automate
  Before using AI to make existing work faster, ask which meetings, processes, and activities shouldn’t exist at all.
• AI needs a better story about what goes right
  The negative future of AI is easy to picture. Jim argues we need a more tangible vision of how AI can improve people’s lives without losing purpose and human connection.

00:00 Intro: Predictions for the future
00:46 Meet Jim VandeHei
01:06 Becoming an AI Lab Rat
04:21 How Axios Got Everyone Using AI
05:46 Who Gets the Most Out of AI?
08:27 The AI Understanding Gap
11:04 How Jim Keeps Up With AI
14:20 Building Axios for an AI Future
20:47 The CEO’s AI “SEAL Team”
23:52 Writing for Humans and LLMs
26:49 Delete Before You Automate
30:46 The Monthly Mentality
35:58 AI-Assisted Writing and Authenticity
41:47 The Coming Political Backlash
47:42 A Better Story for AI
55:25 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

After helping lead AI adoption at Moderna, Brice Chalamel has a new goal at OpenAI: help create 1,000 AI adoption success stories across large organizations.

Brice takes Henrik and Jeremy inside how work happens at OpenAI, where Slack has largely replaced internal email, agents help process information and draft responses, and some workflows are already moving agent to agent. But as AI takes on more responsibility, Brice argues that trust can’t be mandated. It has to be earned.

The conversation goes beyond tools into what it actually takes to lead people through change. Brice explains why, in a ten-step journey, nine steps may only be halfway, why our existing mental models shape how we respond to AI, and why leaders need to listen before trying to change someone’s mind.

They also explore Brice’s idea that AI could move us from “knowledge workers” to “intelligence workers,” a personal story about his mother using ChatGPT while caring for his father with Alzheimer’s, and why the benefits of AI need to extend beyond the people already living in abundance.

Key Takeaways

• Trust in AI has to be earned
  As agents take on more responsibility, people need experience with them before they’re willing to hand over judgment and communication.
• AI adoption is a mind game and a heart game
  Successful change depends not just on what people know about AI, but on what they believe, fear, and care about.
• Nine steps can be only halfway there
  The final stage of transformation is often where the hardest work begins and assumptions need to be questioned.
• We’re moving from knowledge workers to intelligence workers
  As AI handles more information processing, human value shifts toward judgment, perspective, influence, and decision-making.
• Listen before you think
  Changing minds starts with understanding the experiences and mental models behind someone’s point of view, not simply making a better argument.

Brice's LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/bricechallamel/
Website: powerofwhy.ai

00:00 Intro: From Knowledge Worker to Intelligence Worker
00:30 Meet Brice Chalamel
01:18 From Moderna to OpenAI
04:50 The Mission: 1,000 AI Success Stories
07:45 How Work Happens at OpenAI
08:59 When Agents Talk to Agents
10:56 Trust Has to Be Earned
15:22 Brice’s Principles for Change
16:45 Nine Steps Is Halfway There
25:21 The Mind Game
30:24 Why Leaders Resist AI
35:28 The Human Side of AI
37:37 When ChatGPT Became a Lifeline
41:56 From Knowledge Worker to Intelligence Worker
43:37 Agency in the AI Era
46:31 Who Gets to Benefit From AI?
51:39 What Our Fear of AI Reveals
56:18 Listen Before You Think
01:03:07 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

A year ago, Logitech had people experimenting with AI. Today, Eric says he can’t think of a single part of the company that isn’t building, exploring, or creating something with it.

Eric shares what helped make that happen. There’s a Build Advisor that helps employees figure out what to build and connects them with people who may have already worked on something similar. AI in Action moments are now part of company and leadership meetings. And before leadership presents to the board, there’s an expectation that their work goes through an AI Board Advisor first.

Henrik, Jeremy, and Eric also get into what comes next: how to measure whether all this AI activity actually creates value, why Eric built AI systems to manage his own information overload and sleep, and why creating something new should come with another question: what old report, process, or way of working can now disappear?

Key Takeaways

• Embed AI into how work gets done
  AI becomes more valuable when it’s built into existing workflows and expectations, rather than simply made available for people to use.
• Make AI adoption visible and repeatable
  Logitech keeps AI present through AI in Action moments, leadership routines, office hours, shared Gems, and a 175-person volunteer Champions Network.
• Build resources that help people help themselves
  Tools like the Build Advisor give employees a place to start, surface work that already exists, and connect them with colleagues who have tackled similar problems.
• Ask what you can stop doing
  Eric argues that every new AI-enabled artifact should come with another question: what old report, process, or way of working can now disappear?

Eric's website: porres.com/
Eric's LinkedIn: linkedin.com/eporres/
Logitech: www.logitech.com/

00:00 Embedding AI Into the Workflow
00:52 Meet Eric Porres
01:15 The Cambrian Explosion of AI
06:20 Measuring the Value of AI
11:16 The Build Advisor
16:12 Keeping Up With AI
19:43 Making AI Part of the Culture
21:37 The AI Board Advisor
25:51 Building an AI Champions Network
29:15 Eric’s Personal AI Stack
32:17 The AI Vampire Problem
40:59 Building a Deep Memory
46:49 What Can AI Help You Delete?
55:19 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Most companies know how to innovate. Far fewer know how to scale innovation.

Charles introduces the explore versus exploit framework, explaining why the same systems that help organizations succeed today can make them resistant to change tomorrow. As companies mature, they become better at serving existing customers, improving existing products, and optimizing existing processes. The harder question is how to create space for experimentation without undermining the business that already exists.

Henrik, Jeremy, and Charles explore what this means in the age of AI. They discuss whether AI should be viewed as a substitute or a complement, why Microsoft's transformation under Satya Nadella succeeded, how Amazon has built exploration into its operating system, and why leaders don't create adaptable organizations through vision alone. They do it by shaping culture through incentives, systems, and the behaviors they reward.

Key Takeaways:

• The biggest challenge isn't generating ideas. It's scaling them.
  Many organizations are good at innovation. The difficult part is giving promising ideas the support they need to grow.
• Great companies become trapped by what made them successful.
  The metrics, incentives, and culture that optimize today's business can make it harder to adapt to tomorrow's.
• Culture is built through systems.
  Leadership principles only matter when they're reflected in hiring, incentives, performance reviews, and everyday behavior.
• The goal isn't to predict the future. It's to discover it.
  The most adaptable organizations build processes that help them experiment, learn, and uncover new opportunities as the world changes.

Charles' Stanford profile: stanford.edu/faculty/charles-oreilly

00:00 Intro: Why Companies Die Fast
00:36 Meet Charles O'Reilly
02:01 Explore Versus Exploit
03:50 AI Substitute Or Complement
06:51 Adaptability As Culture
09:19 Resistance To Change
12:32 Microsoft Culture Turnaround
15:25 Ambidexterity And Lifespans
18:20 Ideate Incubate Scale
20:10 Scaling Needs Separation
24:44 Amazon PRFAQ Machine
34:33 Rituals And Failure Signals
38:05 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

The conversation begins with an experiment that caught Jeremy's attention. Dan asked ChatGPT to tell him what his friends wouldn't. From questions about his blind spots to what people might say behind his back, some responses felt completely wrong, while others landed with surprising force. Rather than accepting every answer, Dan explains why the real value comes from wrestling with AI's perspective, not simply believing it.

From there, Henrik, Jeremy, and Dan explore what it takes to use AI well. They discuss intellectual humility, prompting models to challenge rather than flatter us, and why AI works best as a sparring partner that exposes weaknesses in our thinking. The conversation also touches on taste, agency, and why, in a world where execution is becoming easier, discernment and original thinking become even more valuable.

Key Takeaways:

• Use AI to make your thinking visible
  The best AI conversations don't just generate answers. They help you understand your own assumptions, reactions, and ideas more clearly.
• Treat AI as a sparring partner
  Challenge AI's responses, ask it to critique your work, and use it to strengthen your thinking rather than replace it.
• Taste is developed by creating
  As AI makes execution easier, judgment and discernment become more valuable. The best way to develop both is by creating, not just consuming.
• Agency depends on context
  People don't become more agentic through willpower alone. The right environment, with autonomy and room to take risks, makes initiative possible.

Daniel's website: danpink.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/danielpink
AI Self-Reflection Prompts: danpink.com/ai-guide/

00:00 AI as a Brutally Honest Advisor
00:32 Meet Daniel Pink
00:47 AI for Self-Knowledge
01:40 A Brutally Honest AI
06:10 What Do People Say Behind Your Back?
07:45 Should You Trust AI's Advice?
13:28 The Fear of Irrelevance
17:44 Intellectual Humility
20:04 AI as a Sparring Partner
24:35 Teaching AI to Think Like You
27:38 Why Taste Matters
29:59 Agency Starts with Context
37:08 A Future That's a Little Better
41:49 Nostalgia vs. Reality
45:18 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Geoff Woods returns to Beyond the Prompt to discuss the updated edition of The AI-Driven Leader and what has changed over the past 18 months. Rather than focusing on the latest AI models, Geoff argues that leaders need to use AI themselves before asking others to, using it to think more clearly, shape strategy, and make better decisions.

The conversation explores why many organizations confuse access with adoption, why strategy should come before use cases, and how AI can change the way leaders approach everything from business strategy to organizational design. Along the way, Henrik and Jeremy challenge Geoff's ideas on authorship, judgment, and whether understanding AI changes what leaders believe is possible.

Key Takeaways:

• Leaders need to use AI themselves
  Using AI personally is what qualifies leaders to shape strategy and lead others from practice rather than theory.
• Use AI to improve your thinking
  The biggest opportunity isn't automating work. It's using AI to think better, solve better problems, and imagine new possibilities.
• Start with problems, not use cases
  Begin with the biggest challenges facing the business, then use AI to rethink how to solve them.
• AI still needs human judgment
  AI can generate ideas, but people are still responsible for reviewing the output and standing behind it.
• Focus AI on your highest-value work
  Use AI to amplify the small set of activities where your human strengths create the greatest impact.

The AI-Driven Leader: aileadership.com
Geoff's LinkedIn: linkedin/geoff-woods

00:00 Are You Qualified to Lead on AI?
00:35 Meet Geoff Woods
00:54 The AI Slop Dilemma
05:48 Putting Your Stamp of Approval
09:19 What Changed in 18 Months
12:13 Access Isn't Adoption
15:50 Why Leaders Can't Delegate AI
20:09 Strategy Before Use Cases
22:02 BarkBox's AI Strategy
26:23 Reinventing Strategy with AI
33:11 Compressing Months into Hours
37:22 Human Skills as Superpowers
42:46 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: are-you-qualified-to-challenge-your-team-on-ai-with-geoff-woods-author-of-the-ai-driven-leader/transcript

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Christian believes the AI era will be defined less by generating outputs and more by evaluating them. As intelligence becomes cheaper and more accessible, the people who create the most value may be those who can distinguish good work from exceptional work and help guide increasingly capable systems.

The conversation explores verification, judgment, and why expertise still matters in a world where AI can perform many tasks at a high level. Christian explains why today's experts are both highly valuable and simultaneously training the systems that may eventually replace parts of their work.

Jeremy and Henrik also explore what this means at a personal level. They discuss building AI agents that reflect your own preferences, creating personal verification systems, and why AI may make it easier to learn new skills, switch careers, and pursue more ambitious ideas.

Key Takeaways:

• Verification becomes more valuable as intelligence gets cheaper
  As AI makes generating outputs easier, the ability to recognize what is actually good becomes increasingly important.
• Experts are training their own replacements
  The people best positioned to verify AI outputs are also helping codify the expertise that trains future systems.
• Human value shifts from doing to directing
  As AI handles more execution, people create value through judgment, direction, and orchestration.
• Build your own verification system
  The best AI users are developing agents, workflows, and tools that reflect their own preferences and standards.

Christian's LinkedIn: linkedin.com/ccatalini/
Christian's X: x.com/ccatalini
Christian's website: catalini.com
Economics of AGI: full paper
Jeremy's Persona File Template: YouTube/The8Files

00:00 Non-Measurable Frontiers
00:32 Meet Christian Catalini
01:08 The Economics of AGI
03:09 Why Verification Matters
06:37 Can Everything Be Measured?
10:32 The Rise of the Verifier
14:35 When Intelligence Gets Cheap
21:46 Building Your Verification Harness
24:08 Human + AI Augmentation
30:18 Persona Files and Privacy
33:12 Reasons for Optimism
36:00 Career Switching in the AI Era
39:31 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: the-unexpected-economics-of-agi-with-christian-catalini-tech-founder-and-co-creator-of-libra/transcript

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.