Alexander Kuilman works with CEOs and executive teams to bring more humanity into how they lead. He joins Henrik and Jeremy to explore why, if leaders know AI matters, getting people to actually use it can still be so difficult.

Using Bob Kegan and Lisa Lahey’s Immunity to Change framework, Alex argues that “I don’t have time” can mask deeper fears about competence, relevance, and what happens when AI can do work you previously thought made you valuable. They also explore why psychological safety matters if people are going to admit what they don’t know and actually experiment.

The conversation ends with the “AI vampire” and Alex’s idea of “corporate numbing”: AI makes us more productive, but instead of taking the time back, we often fill it with more work. Which leaves a bigger question: when AI gives us time back, what do we actually want to do with it?

Key Takeaways:

• AI resistance may be about fear, not time
  “I don’t have time” can mask deeper fears about competence, relevance, and what happens when AI can do work you thought made you valuable.
• People need to feel safe enough to experiment
  Psychological safety gives people room to admit what they don’t know, try something new, and risk looking incompetent.
• How leaders make people feel matters
  Henrik and Jeremy realize that some of the AI leaders they admire don’t just have good tactics. They make people around them feel safe enough to try.
• Don’t let AI give you more work
  The “AI vampire” turns productivity gains into more work. Alex’s idea of “corporate numbing” asks whether staying busy is sometimes easier than deciding what we actually want to do with the time AI gives back. Alex Kuilman (transcript - fina…

The Practice: bethepractice.com
Alex's LinkedIn: LinkedIn/AlexKuilman
Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan & Lisa Laskow
Amy Edmondson on Psychological Safety: Psychological Safety

00:00 Intro: The Problem of Corporate Numbing
00:23 Meet Alexander Kuilman
04:45 Why Aren’t People Using AI More?
06:49 The Hidden Assumptions Blocking Change
08:08 Jeremy’s Travel Problem
14:12 What Are People Really Afraid of With AI?
16:02 Stop Making Time to Experiment
22:25 Psychological Safety and AI Adoption
32:56 How to Hold Yourself
38:57 The Leaders Who Make People Feel Safe
40:33 What If AI Helps Us Think Less?
44:13 The AI Vampire
46:10 Corporate Numbing
54:08 Your Humanity Is the Advantage
58:05 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

Jim VandeHei joins Henrik and Jeremy around the launch of his new book, Simplify: Do 50% More With 50% Less, co-authored with Mike Allen and Roy Schwartz. In the conversation, Jim shares how he’s leading Axios through AI, from turning himself into an “AI lab rat” to rethinking how the company works.

At Axios, Jim gave everyone access to ChatGPT, brought in training, and invited employees who took naturally to the technology to help others across the company. He also shares how AI fellows working directly with him prototype new ideas, why companies should delete unnecessary work before automating it, and how Axios is preparing for a world where more information moves from the open web into social platforms and personalized LLMs.

The conversation ends with a bigger question: what story are we telling people about an AI-enabled future? Jim worries that the negative case for AI is vivid and easy to understand, while the positive case often amounts to curing cancer or eliminating work. He makes the case for something more tangible: using AI to make people’s work and lives better while preserving human connection and the feeling that what people do still matters.

Jim's new book: Simplify: Do 50% more with 50% less
“Confessions of an AI Lab Rat”: Read here!
Axios: Axios.com
Jim's LinkedIn: LinkedIn.com/JimVandeHei

Key Takeaways

• Leaders need to become AI lab rats
  Leaders need firsthand experience with AI to understand what it can do and give others permission to experiment.
• Give the CEO an AI “SEAL team”
  Jim’s AI fellows help him prototype ideas quickly, stay current, and experiment outside the normal company processes.
• Delete before you automate
  Before using AI to make existing work faster, ask which meetings, processes, and activities shouldn’t exist at all.
• AI needs a better story about what goes right
  The negative future of AI is easy to picture. Jim argues we need a more tangible vision of how AI can improve people’s lives without losing purpose and human connection.

00:00 Intro: Predictions for the future
00:46 Meet Jim VandeHei
01:06 Becoming an AI Lab Rat
04:21 How Axios Got Everyone Using AI
05:46 Who Gets the Most Out of AI?
08:27 The AI Understanding Gap
11:04 How Jim Keeps Up With AI
14:20 Building Axios for an AI Future
20:47 The CEO’s AI “SEAL Team”
23:52 Writing for Humans and LLMs
26:49 Delete Before You Automate
30:46 The Monthly Mentality
35:58 AI-Assisted Writing and Authenticity
41:47 The Coming Political Backlash
47:42 A Better Story for AI
55:25 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

After helping lead AI adoption at Moderna, Brice Chalamel has a new goal at OpenAI: help create 1,000 AI adoption success stories across large organizations.

Brice takes Henrik and Jeremy inside how work happens at OpenAI, where Slack has largely replaced internal email, agents help process information and draft responses, and some workflows are already moving agent to agent. But as AI takes on more responsibility, Brice argues that trust can’t be mandated. It has to be earned.

The conversation goes beyond tools into what it actually takes to lead people through change. Brice explains why, in a ten-step journey, nine steps may only be halfway, why our existing mental models shape how we respond to AI, and why leaders need to listen before trying to change someone’s mind.

They also explore Brice’s idea that AI could move us from “knowledge workers” to “intelligence workers,” a personal story about his mother using ChatGPT while caring for his father with Alzheimer’s, and why the benefits of AI need to extend beyond the people already living in abundance.

Key Takeaways

• Trust in AI has to be earned
  As agents take on more responsibility, people need experience with them before they’re willing to hand over judgment and communication.
• AI adoption is a mind game and a heart game
  Successful change depends not just on what people know about AI, but on what they believe, fear, and care about.
• Nine steps can be only halfway there
  The final stage of transformation is often where the hardest work begins and assumptions need to be questioned.
• We’re moving from knowledge workers to intelligence workers
  As AI handles more information processing, human value shifts toward judgment, perspective, influence, and decision-making.
• Listen before you think
  Changing minds starts with understanding the experiences and mental models behind someone’s point of view, not simply making a better argument.

Brice's LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/bricechallamel/
Website: powerofwhy.ai

00:00 Intro: From Knowledge Worker to Intelligence Worker
00:30 Meet Brice Chalamel
01:18 From Moderna to OpenAI
04:50 The Mission: 1,000 AI Success Stories
07:45 How Work Happens at OpenAI
08:59 When Agents Talk to Agents
10:56 Trust Has to Be Earned
15:22 Brice’s Principles for Change
16:45 Nine Steps Is Halfway There
25:21 The Mind Game
30:24 Why Leaders Resist AI
35:28 The Human Side of AI
37:37 When ChatGPT Became a Lifeline
41:56 From Knowledge Worker to Intelligence Worker
43:37 Agency in the AI Era
46:31 Who Gets to Benefit From AI?
51:39 What Our Fear of AI Reveals
56:18 Listen Before You Think
01:03:07 The Debrief

📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Here!

For more prompts, tips, and AI tools. Check out our website: https://www.beyondtheprompt.ai/ or follow Jeremy or Henrik on Linkedin:

Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.