What if the future of the church isn’t primarily about survival—but about forming people?

In this episode of Belonging, Becoming, Beloved, Frances Lin and Sean Chow sit down with Rev. Dr. Victor Aloyo Jr., president of Columbia Theological Seminary, for a conversation about ministry, theological education, leadership, and the changing church.

Victor takes us from his roots in Sunday school and church planting in Brooklyn to theological education and his leadership at Columbia. Along the way, he offers a challenge to the church: we can become so focused on survival, buildings, and institutions that we forget one of our deepest callings to equip people for ministry.

We talk about why ministry is fundamentally about relationships, what it means to walk alongside people rather than simply solve their problems, how seminaries can prepare leaders for the realities they actually face, and why the church must continue asking new questions for a changing world.

This is a conversation about more than preparing pastors. It’s about forming people, building capacity, and imagining what the church might become when we invest in the gifts God has already placed within our communities.

🎙️ The Church as a Capacity Builder with Victor Aloyo Jr.

Listen or watch now.

What happens when you feel called to something and it doesn’t turn out the way you expected?

In this episode, Frances and Sean get real about the journey through General Assembly, disappointment, calling, and the question that comes afterward: What now, God?

Sometimes the end of one thing creates space to see something new. We talk about what we learned, why we’re still hopeful about the church, and why faithful leadership sometimes means experimenting, taking risks, and leaving room for possibilities we couldn’t see before.

And somehow, we also end up talking about Din Tai Fung, seafood, and way too much garlic.

🎙️ Join us for an honest conversation about calling, failure, possibility, and what comes next.

What can happen when we simply say yes?

Sometimes we become so focused on whether something will succeed that we forget to ask where God might already be moving.

In our latest conversation on Belonging, Becoming, Beloved, we sit down with Michael Gehrling, the new manager of 1001 New Worshiping Communities, to talk about calling, risk, failure, church planting, and what it means to follow the Spirit into something new.

Michael shares a powerful story about a church that simply said yes when a group of people needed a place to gather. That yes became something no one expected.

And somehow, we also end up talking about West Coast Swing, Dancing with the Stars, and why trying something completely new can change us.

Maybe the question isn't whether we know exactly where something will lead.

Maybe it is: Where is God inviting us to say yes?

🎙️ Belonging, Becoming, Beloved