What if the future of the church isn’t primarily about survival—but about forming people?

In this episode of Belonging, Becoming, Beloved, Frances Lin and Sean Chow sit down with Rev. Dr. Victor Aloyo Jr., president of Columbia Theological Seminary, for a conversation about ministry, theological education, leadership, and the changing church.

Victor takes us from his roots in Sunday school and church planting in Brooklyn to theological education and his leadership at Columbia. Along the way, he offers a challenge to the church: we can become so focused on survival, buildings, and institutions that we forget one of our deepest callings to equip people for ministry.

We talk about why ministry is fundamentally about relationships, what it means to walk alongside people rather than simply solve their problems, how seminaries can prepare leaders for the realities they actually face, and why the church must continue asking new questions for a changing world.

This is a conversation about more than preparing pastors. It’s about forming people, building capacity, and imagining what the church might become when we invest in the gifts God has already placed within our communities.

🎙️ The Church as a Capacity Builder with Victor Aloyo Jr.

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What happens when you feel called to something and it doesn’t turn out the way you expected?

In this episode, Frances and Sean get real about the journey through General Assembly, disappointment, calling, and the question that comes afterward: What now, God?

Sometimes the end of one thing creates space to see something new. We talk about what we learned, why we’re still hopeful about the church, and why faithful leadership sometimes means experimenting, taking risks, and leaving room for possibilities we couldn’t see before.

And somehow, we also end up talking about Din Tai Fung, seafood, and way too much garlic.

🎙️ Join us for an honest conversation about calling, failure, possibility, and what comes next.

What can happen when we simply say yes?

Sometimes we become so focused on whether something will succeed that we forget to ask where God might already be moving.

In our latest conversation on Belonging, Becoming, Beloved, we sit down with Michael Gehrling, the new manager of 1001 New Worshiping Communities, to talk about calling, risk, failure, church planting, and what it means to follow the Spirit into something new.

Michael shares a powerful story about a church that simply said yes when a group of people needed a place to gather. That yes became something no one expected.

And somehow, we also end up talking about West Coast Swing, Dancing with the Stars, and why trying something completely new can change us.

Maybe the question isn't whether we know exactly where something will lead.

Maybe it is: Where is God inviting us to say yes?

🎙️ Belonging, Becoming, Beloved

Leadership isn’t just about authority, strategy, or getting things done. It’s about trust, connection, and knowing we’re better together.

In this episode, we sit down with Brad Munroe, Presbytery Pastor for Grand Canyon and De Cristo Presbyteries, to talk about relational leadership, supporting pastors, changing church culture, and why transformation takes time.

As Brad reminds us: “Programs don’t change your culture. Identity changes a culture.”

What changes when we lead from relationship rather than position?

🎙️ Leadership Is Relational New episode of Belonging, Becoming, Beloved.

What if the church has been measuring success by the wrong things?

This week on Belonging, Becoming, Beloved, we talk with the Rev. Katie Nakamura Rengers about church planting, institutional expectations, failure, and what happens when ministry doesn’t turn out the way we planned.

Katie shares the story of launching the Abbey, a coffee-shop church community in Birmingham, and the painful lessons that came when the original model could no longer continue. Her experience raises a bigger question for all of us: Is a ministry successful because it becomes financially sustainable, fills a building, or increases membership or because lives are being changed and people are encountering Christ?

Years later, Katie carries a simple conviction with her: God wastes nothing. Even the things we call failures can become places where God creates something unexpectedly beautiful.

Now serving at St. Elizabeth’s Episcopal Church in Honolulu, Katie is discovering again what happens when we pay attention to where the Holy Spirit is already at work.

🎙️ A conversation about failure, experimentation, institutional expectations, and trusting that God is still at work when the plan changes.

What is AI doing to us, not just to our work, but to our souls?

In this episode of Belonging, Becoming, Beloved, Frances Lin and I sit down with Rev. Canon Dr. Lorenzo Lebrija for a fascinating conversation about artificial intelligence, Christian formation, and the future of the church.

Rather than simply asking whether Christians should use AI, Lorenzo invites us to ask deeper questions: How is this technology forming us? How might it change the way we relate to one another? And in an increasingly digital and isolated world, could the church rediscover one of its most important callings: creating spaces where people can actually be human together?

AI may change how we work. But the deeper question is what kind of people we are becoming as we use it.

🎙️ AI, the Soul, and the Future of the Church

Listen to the latest episode of Belonging, Becoming, Beloved.

Who is forming the next generation of the church?

Christian education is about far more than Sunday school. It is about helping people learn the stories of faith, understand worship, ask difficult questions, discover who God has created them to be, and grow into a faith that can sustain them throughout their lives.

On this episode of Belonging. Becoming. Beloved., Frances Lin and I talk with Renda Brinson, Certified Christian Educator, about a ministry the church may have underestimated for far too long.

As congregations become smaller and fewer churches have dedicated Christian educators, we ask some important questions: Who is forming our children and young people? How are we equipping volunteers? What happens to our theological grounding when Christian formation becomes an afterthought? And could Christian educators become even more important to the future of the church?

Renda reminds us that Christianity is a lifelong journey. Formation doesn't happen in a single class or program. It happens across a lifetime and across generations.

🎙️ Who Is Forming the Next Generation? | Renda Brinson on the Future of Christian Education

Listen to the latest episode of Belonging. Becoming. Beloved.

What does it mean to move beyond changing policy and begin changing culture?

In this episode of Belonging. Becoming. Beloved., we sit down with Rev. Brian Ellison, Executive Director of the Covenant Network of Presbyterians, for a thoughtful conversation about authenticity, belonging, healing, and hope.

Together we explore questions that matter for every church: • How do we create communities where people can be their authentic selves? • What does real inclusion look like beyond statements and policies? • How do relationships heal wounds that arguments never can? • Where do we see God at work in the church today?

This isn't simply a conversation about polity or policy. It's a conversation about discipleship, courage, and becoming the kind of church where every person's God-given gifts are welcomed and celebrated.