We were delighted to have the chance to speak with political scientist Yascha Mounk earlier this month at the University of Wisconsin—Eau Claire. We had a wide-ranging conversation about the threats facing diverse democracies today—and, why, in spite of the many challenges, Yascha remains optimistic.

Show Notes

* Yascha is the founder of the publication Persuasion and has his own substack. We recommend his podcast, The Good Fight , as well. We made a joint appearance on the pod back in 2023 to discuss fighting illiberalism from the right and the left.

* For a list of Yascha’s books , click here.

We have been dying to discuss an article called  “Why Aren’t Professors Braver?” since it was first published in The Chronicle of Higher Education back in September. It’s by the psychologist Paul Bloom and it starts with an ode to the professoriate:

We tend to be pretty smart. We are sometimes socially inept, but in a sweet way. We are genuinely excited about ideas…We are often generous... mentoring students in ways that don’t lead to any tangible rewards.  And we are a peaceable lot. If you’re sitting at a bar, minding your own business, and some drunk takes a swing at you, the drunk is unlikely to be a professor.

In spite of our many praiseworthy traits, Bloom says that professors aren’t particularly courageous. When controversial or sensitive topics arise, he claims that we tend to be “too censorious and too self-censoring.”  “Why,” Bloom asks, “are even tenured professors, people with the most secure jobs on Earth, so unwilling to speak their minds?”

We have posed this question many times since we both became faculty members--and we could think of no better person to hash it out with than our friend, UPenn professor Jonathan Zimmerman.

Jon is a historian of education who has had a long and illustrious career, first at West Chester University, then at New York University and now at the University of Pennsylvania. He is the author of many books, including Whose America: Culture Wars in the Public Schools, Too Hot to Handle: A Global History of Sex Education, and The Amateur Hour: A History of College Teaching in America. We were thrilled to have him join us on Banished.

Show Notes

* Here is the article that inspired this episode: Paul Bloom, “Why Aren’t Professors Braver?”, Chronicle Review, September 24, 2025

* The term “excellent sheep” comes from William Deresiewicz’s 2014 book, Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life

* See Jon Zimmerman’s official UPenn bio here

* The *circling the wagons* article Jon references is available here