エピソード

  • Neal Goldstein: Find Your Lane — Why Connection Beats the Corner Office

    Neal Goldstein: Find Your Lane — Why Connection Beats the Corner Office
    2026/09/24
    A high school dropout who became a law firm founder explains why every success story has someone else's fingerprints on it — and why the relationships lawyers neglect are the ones already sitting in their contact list. It's a conversation about building a book of business by treating connection as a way of life, not a marketing tactic. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Neal Goldstein discuss:The myth of the self-made professionalDropping out and the mentor who changed the trajectoryRaising kids who've faced adversityThe "law school industrial complex" and the comfort of the billable hourMining past clients and referral partners as low-hanging fruitWhich relationships earn your time as you get olderAI and digital convenience vs. genuine human connectionChoosing your lane instead of the title you thought you wanted Key Takeaways:Nobody's career is self-built — every ascent has someone in it who bent down and helped pick up the boots.Comfort is the quiet risk. Lawyers who've been fed work for a decade are the ones with nothing to fall back on when the market turns.The cheapest business development in existence is a cup of coffee with someone who already likes you. You can have a four-star conversation in a one-star restaurant.Most firms are sitting on hundreds of happy former clients they've never called again — that's revenue, not nostalgia.Technology hasn't made real relationships less important; by making convenience so easy, it has made genuine connection rarer and therefore worth more.Your lane won't be obvious on day one. You'll recognize it by where your results come from, not by which title looks best on the door. "I don't think technology makes genuine relationships less important. I just think it makes them more valuable." — Neal Goldstein Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our sponsors!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Neal Goldstein: Neal A. Goldstein is a partner at Goldstein and Bashner, author, speaker, and host of That One Lawyer Podcast. With nearly four decades of personal injury trial experience, he specializes in high-stakes injury advocacy while teaching attorneys and business leaders how to build authentic, relationship-driven growth. Connect with Neal Goldstein: Website: https://www.eglaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nealagoldsteinlaw/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    35 分
  • Susan Silverman: Business Development Isn't Selling, It's Listening

    Susan Silverman: Business Development Isn't Selling, It's Listening
    2026/09/28
    Law school taught you how to practice law, but nobody taught you how to bring in clients or lead people. In her first podcast appearance ever, Susan B. Silverman explains why copying your firm's top rainmaker won't work, and how building on your own strengths, earning trust, and learning leadership as a skill can change your career. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Silverman discuss:Why mid-level associates switch firmsMentorship, sponsorship, and structured associate developmentBusiness development based on your strengths, not sales pitchesBuilding rapport and trust through vulnerabilityMoving from excellent attorney to effective leader Key Takeaways:Business development isn't one-size-fits-all. Copying the biggest rainmaker in your firm probably won't suit your strengths, so start with what you already do well.Selling is really listening. Find out what problem the other person is dealing with, ask follow-up questions, and help them reach their goal.Relationships that bring in business take years, and timing matters. If you walk into every conversation needing a new client, that pressure can get in the way of the relationship.Making partner gives you a title, not leadership skills. Leadership means developing others, delegating, giving feedback, and influencing people without formal authority, and all of it can be taught.Don't face a career crossroads alone. Talking to someone who can show you options beyond "stay or quit" can keep you from making a decision you regret. "Making partner is a title. It doesn't make you an effective leader. Leadership is a skill; it can be practiced, and it can be taught." — Susan Silverman Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our sponsors!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Susan Silverman: Former commercial litigator and business development expert Susan B. Silverman helps law firms retain top mid-level associates, strengthen their leadership pipeline, and build systems that drive long-term growth. Having experienced firsthand how firms invest heavily in early training but leave mid-level associate development inconsistent, she acts as a trusted advisor to firm leadership to bridge structural gaps on the path to partnership. Connect with Susan Silverman: Website: https://susanbsilvermanconsulting.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/susan-b-silverman-consulting-llc/home/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    30 分
  • Scott Rahn: Build a Law Firm That Grows Without Burning Out Its People

    Scott Rahn: Build a Law Firm That Grows Without Burning Out Its People
    2026/10/12
    How can a law firm grow while protecting its people and its reputation? Scott Rahn shares how relationship-building, values-based hiring, and honest conversations can help firms serve clients well without burning out their teams. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Rahn discuss:Long-term friendships and professional relationshipsScott’s path into private wealth disputesGenerational differences in law firmsValues-based hiring and firm cultureSustainable growth and work-life balance Key Takeaways:Strong relationships and mutual support are more lasting measures of success than professional accolades.Hire for shared values, not just credentials; one poor fit can disrupt an entire team.Turning down work can be wiser than overcommitting and damaging client service or team morale.Open conversations help firms understand what employees need as their priorities change.Retaining a strong performer at reduced capacity can be better for a business than losing them altogether. "How disruptive it can be to let the wrong person into the organization… So it has to start at hiring, and you have to be very clear about who your people are, who you're looking to hire, and be very consistent." — Scott Rahn Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Scott Rahn: Scott Rahn is the Founding Partner of RMO Lawyers, where he leads a premier trust, estate, and probate litigation practice dedicated to resolving high-stakes inheritance disputes, breach of fiduciary duty claims, and financial elder abuse cases. Drawing on extensive trial, arbitration, and mediation experience, he represents heirs, beneficiaries, trustees, and executors across California and internationally, focusing on swift, cost-effective resolutions that navigate complex family dynamics. Recognized as "Trusts and Estates Litigator of the Year" by the Century City Bar Association and listed in Chambers High Net Worth Guide and Lawdragon 500, Scott is President Emeritus of the Beverly Hills Estate Planning Council and a frequent media commentator on wealth transfer and estate disputes. Connect with Scott Rahn: Website: https://rmolawyers.com/team/scott-rahn/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    34 分
  • Danny Karon: Legal Wellness, the Missing Pillar of Your Health

    Danny Karon: Legal Wellness, the Missing Pillar of Your Health
    2026/10/01
    You look after your body, your mind, and your money, but when did you last check your legal health? A veteran class action lawyer explains why an ounce of legal prevention beats a courtroom disaster, and how writing and speaking turned his career into something no firm could take away. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Danny Karon discuss:Legal wellness as the "fourth pillar" of wellnessHelping people with "tweener" cases that are too small for most lawyersDocumentation and demand letters (the $1,600 airline win)Speaking and writing as brand buildersRainmaking, autonomy, and starting a new chapter at 60 Key Takeaways:Legal problems rarely stay legal. When they go wrong, they hit your health, your peace of mind, and your wallet.Documentation wins. Screenshots, boarding passes, and a certified letter got $1,600 back from an airline without filing suit.Being a great lawyer doesn't protect you. Even after a billion-dollar trial win, a lawyer with no book of business can be let go.Speaking makes people remember you. Writing lasts and can be looked up. Do both.You never know who will read your work. One law review article led to a lead role in a huge class action case. "It's all about being proactive and taking care of yourself. We take care of ourselves physically, emotionally, financially, but nobody pays mind to their legal wellness. It's the fourth pillar of that wellness table that keeps it stable, and when you go sideways legally, it affects your health." — Danny Karon Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our sponsors!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Danny Karon: Danny Karon, known as "Your Lovable Lawyer," is a class-action trial attorney, law professor, author, and legal wellness advocate dedicated to making complex legal concepts accessible to everyday consumers. The founder and managing member of Cleveland-based Karon LLC, he has spent decades representing plaintiffs in high-stakes antitrust, consumer fraud, and wage-and-hour litigation. In addition to his trial practice, Danny serves as a lecturer in law—having taught at institutions such as the University of Michigan, Columbia Law School, and Ohio State University—and chairs the American Bar Association’s National Institute on Class Actions. Through his platform, media appearances, and book Your Lovable Lawyer’s Guide to Legal Wellness, he breaks down legal rights and consumer protections into practical, easy-to-understand advice to empower the public. Connect with Danny Karon: Website: https://yourlovablelawyer.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Your-Lovable-Lawyer-104479311225240 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/YourLovableLawyer X: https://twitter.com/lovable_lawyer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/YourLovableLawyer/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@yourlovablelawyer Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    30 分
  • Frank Ramos: How AI Is Reshaping Legal Practice and the Business of Law

    Frank Ramos: How AI Is Reshaping Legal Practice and the Business of Law
    2026/10/15
    AI is changing how lawyers market themselves, manage work, and bill for their services—but using it responsibly takes more than the right tools. Explore practical ways to put AI to work while protecting client confidentiality and making room for human oversight. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Frank Ramos discuss:AI for personal branding and business developmentAI-assisted presentations and content creationEmail automation, agents, and workflow efficiencyClient confidentiality, privilege, and human oversightAI’s impact on legal pricing, staffing, and careers Key Takeaways:AI can help lawyers understand their online presence, identify target audiences, and shape more focused marketing.Tailoring presentations and content to a specific audience can make business development more relevant and memorable.Agents can automate repetitive work, but they require testing—and sometimes a dedicated software tool may be worth the cost.Protect sensitive information by vetting platforms and checking AI output against original source material.Distinguish between a skill you lack and an opportunity you’re afraid to try; practice can build confidence over time. "With AI, we all have this tool now that can help direct our careers and our professions, and beyond the obvious ways." — Frank Ramos Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Frank Ramos: Frank Ramos is a nationally recognized litigator, strategic advisor, and thought leader with over 26 years of experience defending commercial, product liability, premises liability, trucking, and insurance disputes. Named Miami’s Product Liability Lawyer of the Year twice by The Best Lawyers in America and holding an AV Preeminent rating from Martindale-Hubbell, he counsels clients ranging from global manufacturers to hospitality brands, while also advising businesses on AI adoption and legal risk. Known as the "Miami Mentor," Frank has written 20 books and over 500 articles on trial practice, attorney development, and litigation management published by the ABA, DRI, and FDCC. Connect with Frank Ramos: Website: https://www.goldbergsegalla.com/our-team/frank-ramos/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miamimentor/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    29 分
  • Brian Klein: The Books and Habits That Build Better Law Firms

    Brian Klein: The Books and Habits That Build Better Law Firms
    2026/10/05
    What can a handful of great books teach lawyers about listening, delegation, client service, and building a thriving firm? Brian Klein and Steve Fretzin share the ideas that changed how they work—and how they care for clients. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian Klein discuss:Listening, empathy, and authentic networkingReading and continuous professional growthTime management, delegation, and buyback ratesValue-based offers and client hospitalityHealth, stress, and entrepreneurial risk Key Takeaways:Listen to understand first; genuine curiosity builds stronger relationships.Create systems for your time instead of relying on memory and willpower.Delegate work when someone else can do it well, even if you could do it yourself.Make the value of your service clear, and create client experiences that feel personal.Taking care of your health and acting before conditions are perfect can improve your odds of succeeding. "If you can have someone that can do the job, at least 80% as good as you. You got to give it to them." — Brian Klein Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our sponsors!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Brian Klein: Brian is an unconventional labor and employment attorney recognized for blending engaging personality with effective legal counsel. Named a New York Super Lawyer (2022–2024) and a former "Rising Star" (2017–2021), he founded his practice on the belief that legal counsel should be informative, approachable, and engaging. Beyond representing clients—including former legal adversaries—Brian has taught as an Adjunct Professor at Hofstra Law School, written for publications such as Eater and the International Business Times, and serves on the NYC Bar Association’s Committee on Labor and Employment Law. Connect with Brian Klein: Website: https://www.weinsteinklein.com/teammembers/brian-g-klein/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-klein-552200a/ Email: bklein@weinsteinklein.com Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    37 分
  • Jaime Nacach: How Delegation Helps Lawyers Win Back Time and Grow

    Jaime Nacach: How Delegation Helps Lawyers Win Back Time and Grow
    2026/10/08
    Lawyers can’t do everything themselves—and trying to may cost them time, focus, and growth. This episode explores how to delegate effectively, build trust with remote assistants, and focus on the work that matters most. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jaime Nacach discuss:Delegation and prioritization for lawyersChoosing tasks and roles for virtual assistantsTraining remote team members through shadowingAccountability, communication, and clear expectationsAutomation, global talent, and business growth Key Takeaways:Start by identifying the recurring work that consumes time but doesn’t need the lawyer’s expertise.Delegation works best when the responsibilities are clearly divided, rather than expecting one person to do everything.Invest time in training at the beginning; shadowing helps a remote assistant understand how you work.Measure progress by completed work and clear expectations—not only by hours logged.Don’t wait for everything to be perfect before launching; learn from feedback and improve as you go. "Expectations are very important, especially in a remote setting because people are not next to each other." — Jaime Nacach Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our sponsors!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jaime Nacach: Jaime Nacach is a Mexican-born entrepreneur, marketing strategist, and technology enthusiast best known as the Founder and CEO of Virtual Latinos. Driven by a mission to bridge global talent gaps while driving positive social impact, he created Virtual Latinos in 2018 to connect North American businesses with pre-vetted, bilingual virtual assistants and remote professionals from across Latin America. Drawing on a background in digital marketing, business development, and software solutions, Jaime focuses on helping entrepreneurs scale efficiently through nearshore staffing, operational systems, and strategic delegation. Connect with Jaime Nacach: Website: https://www.virtuallatinos.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaimenacach/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    34 分
  • Dennis Meador: How to Turn One Podcast Episode Into 30 Content Assets

    Dennis Meador: How to Turn One Podcast Episode Into 30 Content Assets
    2026/09/21
    Most lawyers who start a podcast quit before it ever pays off — because they're playing the wrong role in their own show. Dennis Meador explains how flipping the host-guest dynamic collapses a three-year payoff into six to eight months, and why one episode should never be just one piece of content. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dennis Meador discuss:Pricing without context and the median-low trapThe "perpetual guest" podcasting model for attorneysWho should — and shouldn't — start a podcastOne episode into 30 pieces of contentCumulative effort, burnout, and the long road Key Takeaways:Quote a price before you understand the need, and you've priced yourself at the market's median low.If a prospect won't let you contextualize your value, that's information about the prospect, not your pricing.Podcasting is the wrong tool for anyone expecting the instant lead flow of paid search — it demands time and a piece of yourself.Positioning matters more than production: the person answering the questions is the expert, and the host's job is to make them look good.Bursts of intensity burn out. Consistent, ethical, reviewed-and-improved effort compounds, and compounding can't be outmatched. "I'm not worried about them getting 10,000 downloads. I want them to get 25 downloads of people in their market with a very specific problem." — Dennis Meador Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our sponsors!LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyerRankings.io: https://rankings.io/Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Dennis Meador: Dennis Meador is the CEO and Founder of The Legal Podcast Network, providing turnkey podcasting and content solutions for legal professionals across the United States. An entrepreneur since age 14, he brings over 20 years of experience in law firm marketing, having scaled three marketing companies from under $1 million to over $3–5 million in revenue within one to three years each. Combining a background in business, digital marketing, and podcast production, Dennis helps attorneys establish market authority, differentiate their practice, and engage prospective clients through authentic, conversation-driven audio and video content.Connect with Dennis Meador: Website: https://www.thelegalpodcastnetwork.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-legal-podcast-network/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
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    38 分