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  • 129. No More Mediocre: The Mental Load, the Nag Paradox & Why You Can't Win — with Laura Danger

    129. No More Mediocre: The Mental Load, the Nag Paradox & Why You Can't Win — with Laura Danger
    2026/08/21
    Laura Danger got laid off five days into her maternity leave. Then she opened a birthday card that said best mom, best wife — and realized she couldn’t remember the last time anyone asked if she was doing okay as a person. That stack of moments became No More Mediocre, her book about the mental load, the nag paradox, and the care work that holds everything together while remaining completely invisible.In this conversation, Ashley and Laura talk about the Truman Show moment that cracks open the life you thought you wanted, why the nag paradox is a loop you literally cannot win, what sitcom syndrome is doing to households across the country, and how a garden club in Chicago became something much bigger than anyone expected.In This EpisodeLaura’s Truman Show moment — laid off on maternity leave, a birthday card that only named her roles, and 2020 doing the restWhat the mental load actually is — and why the emotional thinking work definition mattersWeaponized incompetence — what it is and how it shows up in real relationshipsThe nag paradox — the corrosive loop of directing and executing, and why doing it yourself only makes it worseSitcom syndrome — how couples comedy on TikTok normalizes dynamics that can be genuinely toxic behind closed doorsWhy high-achieving women often can’t separate their anger at the system from the person right in front of them — and what to do about itThe career rug pull as the new midlife crisis for men — and what that means for conversations about equity at homeWhat the 2026 Equimundo State of the World’s Fathers report found — and why it’s hauntingLinchpin exhaustion — why Ashley couldn’t snowboard freely because of what it would cost her family if she got hurtWhy believing in equal roles leads to less conflict even when the division of labor isn’t equalZone defense parenting — and why taking the average over time beats snapshot accountingThe garden club that became a care network — free plants, seed libraries, and neighbors who know each other’s namesNo More Mediocre the book — and why the audiobook is specifically designed to listen to while you gardenQuotes From This Episode“I felt bamboozled. I really thought I could change things or just work really hard and this would get better. And it didn’t.”— Laura Danger“I can’t die because I have knowledge that nobody else has. I know the schedule.”— Laura Danger“The nag paradox is that corrosive relationship loop where one person takes direction and the other directs.”— Laura Danger“It’s not just a garden club. It’s a full-blown care network.”— Laura Danger“I am here, I am wearing the name tag, I am doing the thing. But that doesn’t mean it’s my responsibility.”— Ashley BlackingtonResources & LinksNo More Mediocre (book): available everywhere books are sold — audiobook recommendedLibro FM (supports local bookstores): libro.fmInstagram: @thatdarnchatSubstack: search Laura DangerEquimundo State of the World’s Fathers 2026: equimundo.orgFair Play by Eve Rodsky — mentioned as companion resourceDrained by Leah Ruppaner — mentioned in conversationConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    58 分
  • 128. Becky Selbie on Mums Who Look Like They’re Coping but Feel Like They’re Failing

    128. Becky Selbie on Mums Who Look Like They’re Coping but Feel Like They’re Failing
    2026/08/07

    Becky Selbie is a London-based psychotherapist who specialises in motherhood and maternal mental health — and she has a gift for taking the frameworks she uses in her therapy room and translating them into language that actually lands in everyday life.

    In this conversation, Ashley and Becky cover a lot of ground: matrescence and why the word matters so much, the rule book that high-achieving women carry into motherhood that starts working against them the moment they get there, the mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing, the difference between motherhood and mothering, and why the inner critic telling you you’re not good enough isn’t your voice — it’s the noise of a culture that has never held mothers in the regard they deserve.

    It’s one of those conversations that leaves you seeing yourself differently.

    In This Episode

    • How Becky came to specialise in maternal mental health — giving birth and thinking “how has nobody prepared me for this?”
    • Matrescence — why the word matters, where it came from, and why it took 50 years to reach mainstream language
    • The moment Becky heard it for the first time and ran downstairs to tell her husband
    • Sharing the concept with her mother — who had her first child in the 1960s and was prescribed tranquilizers for what was actually matrescence
    • Why high-achieving women struggle in motherhood more than others — and the rule book that explains why
    • Mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing — and what the swan metaphor gets exactly right
    • The “tab open” metaphor — why you never feel fully disconnected from your children even when you’re away from them
    • Not loving every chapter — and why that has nothing to do with how much you love your kids
    • The problem with parenting content on social media — theory without context, and who pays the price
    • Why Becky’s clinical supervisor said “well, she will” when a client was terrified of messing up her kids — and why that was the most freeing thing she’d ever heard
    • Motherhood vs. mothering — the doing versus the being, and why we’re graded on the wrong one
    • The inner critic is the patriarchy — and why turning down its volume is the whole point
    • What fills Becky’s bucket: creativity, building community, and the retreat she’s planning for mums

    Quotes From This Episode

    “Not loving motherhood doesn’t mean that you don’t love mothering. Just because you don’t enjoy bits of motherhood, there is no connection to how you feel about your kids.”

    — Becky Selbie

    “The inner critic is wrong. The inner critic is the patriarchy — it’s society, it’s all those messages about what motherhood should look like. And it’s nonsense.”

    — Becky Selbie

    “Motherhood is the doing. Mothering is the being — the relationship, the love, the knowing them inside out. But we’re graded on the doing.”

    — Becky Selbie

    “Even when you’re away, there’s a tab open all the time in your head. It’s just that as they get older, the tab gets smaller.”

    — Becky Selbie

    “Don’t compare the back end of your business to the front end of somebody else’s.”

    — Ashley Blackington

    Connect with Becky:

    • Instagram: @_motherway_
    • Website: motherway.co.uk

    Connect with Ashley:

    Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

    Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

    Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

    Instagram: @mydovetail.app

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    1 時間
  • 127. Day Raves, Dinner Parties & Polymer Clay: Katie Schlott’s Experiment in Authentic Networking

    127. Day Raves, Dinner Parties & Polymer Clay: Katie Schlott’s Experiment in Authentic Networking
    2026/07/24
    Katie Schlott spent 20 years in innovation — running experiments, iterating, testing what works. So when she realized her professional network had quietly gone dark during the years she was deep in parenting, she did what any good strategist would do: she designed an experiment.Day raves. Pop-up dinners in strangers’ homes. Perfume making fundraisers. Online Slack communities. Wonder Woman dinners. A volunteer board for women’s health research. She tried all of it, wrote about it for Inc Magazine, and then came back on AND/BOTH to talk through what she actually found.The conversation covers the new rules of networking, why smaller rooms build realer connections, how parents in particular need to rethink the whole model, and what happens when you decide to build the community you can’t find. Plus Costco. A lot about Costco.In This EpisodeWhy Katie ran a networking experiment — and what the traditional model was missingThe day rave, the pop-up dinner, the perfume fundraiser — what each one taught herThe Old Girls Club and Society of Working Mothers — online communities built on realness over résumésWonder Woman Dinners — strangers become friends in under two hours, and why it works“Tell me something Google doesn’t know about you” — the opener that changes everythingWhy funny is sticky and vulnerability gets built through shared experiencesIf you can’t find what you’re looking for, build it — Brilliant Failures, Brilliant Mothers, Mama PaloozaJoining a volunteer board for women’s health research and what that unlockedWhy big conferences are often the least efficient use of a parent’s limited time and energyManaging your network based on energy levels, not just calendar availabilityWhat happens when you let your network go dark — and how to rebuild authenticallyHow to be direct about what you’re looking for instead of hoping the room delivers itNetworking with teenagers at home — and the season-by-season nature of connectionQuotes From This Episode“If you think you’re an N of one, you’re actually an N of 100. Just start it.”— Katie Schlott“Funny is sticky. Vulnerability is created in moments where you’re actually having fun with people.”— Katie Schlott“I want to join communities that thrive on real life, not résumés.”— Katie Schlott“Every single founder said: just pick one thing, just start with one. Don’t be overwhelmed, just get the ball rolling.”— Katie Schlott“The smaller rooms are the best. Everything that follows from a small room conversation — the email, the introduction, the follow-up — none of that ever comes from a big conference.”— Ashley BlackingtonResources & LinksConnect with Katie on LinkedInRead Katie's lnc. Magazine article on "The New Rules of Networking"Check out her consultancy and read ALL her articles (Fast Company, Inc and Business Insider)Buy the magical Costco totes that she uses to keep her cart contents tight!Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    1 時間 9 分
  • 126. I Got a Call from Kenya: Adoption, NICU, Newborn Care & Building the Modern Village with Kristin Smith of Well Supported Family

    126. I Got a Call from Kenya: Adoption, NICU, Newborn Care & Building the Modern Village with Kristin Smith of Well Supported Family
    2026/07/10
    Kristin Smith has spent 20 years helping new families survive the hardest weeks of their lives. As the founder of Well Supported Family — a team of over 200 postpartum doulas, newborn care specialists, and nurses operating across 12 states — she’s built the modern village that most families desperately need and almost nobody has access to.Now she has a two-month-old of her own. An adopted son she got the call about while she was standing at an elephant orphanage in Kenya. He came home through the NICU. And for the first time, she’s on the parent side of everything she’s built — learning what it feels like to need the very support she’s spent two decades providing.In this conversation, Ashley and Kristin talk about the postpartum care gap, the different paths to parenthood, what actually happens in those first nights home, and what it looks like to practice exactly what you preach.In This EpisodeHow Kristin started — a postpartum doula at 19 after having her daughter with almost no supportGrowing Well Supported Family from a private practice to a team of 200+ across 12 statesWhy postpartum care in the US is so inadequate — and what it would take to fix itWhat in-home newborn care actually looks like and how it’s tailored to each familyThe RV team, the travel team, and how they reach families in almost every stateNICU babies coming home — the adjustment nobody prepares families forThe call from Kenya — a failed adoption, four days into a trip, at an elephant orphanageThree rounds of IVF and what that experience gave her as a providerBeing on the parent side for the first time — and convincing herself her own baby was brokenWhy adopted babies don’t get the postpartum support they need — and the rude awakening that followedThe philosophy at the heart of her work: build children into your life, not your life around themWhat’s next — expanding into mental health support and more statesQuotes From This Episode“You can have a wound inside your body the size of a basketball, and it was attached. Just because nobody sees it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.”— Kristin Smith“I don’t believe parents should build their life around children. I believe they should build children into their lives.”— Kristin Smith“I was at the elephant orphanage when this baby was born. That feels so symbolic.”— Kristin Smith“I was convinced he was broken. I’m a professional. What is he doing? And then someone said, he was four weeks early. You’re expecting a lot right now.”— Kristin Smith“It’s not just giving them the break they need — it’s helping them learn to build a life with their child.”— Kristin SmithResources & LinksWell Supported Family: wellsupportedfamily.comBaby Care Classes: available via wellsupportedfamily.comInstagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube: @wellsupportedfamilyFind Kristin on Facebook: Kristin LeeConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.careLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    56 分
  • 125. This Pain Ends with Us: Breaking the Burnout Loop for the Next Generation Using Notice and Do with Sam Kelly

    125. This Pain Ends with Us: Breaking the Burnout Loop for the Next Generation Using Notice and Do with Sam Kelly
    2026/06/26

    Sam Kelly was making a Saturday morning to-do list for her kids on a Friday night when it hit her. She’d just spent a year teaching her husband not to rely on her to notice what needed to be done — and here she was, about to hand her children the same broken script. She dropped the marker, went to bed, and the next morning introduced her family to Notice and Do.

    Two years later she has a book deal with Harper Collins, a viral online platform, and a method that’s helping burned-out mothers around the world finally get their families off the sidelines. In this conversation, Ashley and Sam talk about the mental load, the burnout loop, intergenerational cycle-breaking, and what it actually looks like to teach kids — including neurodivergent ones — to be a real part of the family team.

    In This Episode

    1. The Friday night moment that sparked the Notice and Do method
    2. What Notice and Do actually is — and how it differs from a chore chart
    3. The Big Three — Sam’s daily structure for kids of any age or ability
    4. The learning ladder — why perfection isn’t the point and every rung counts
    5. Teaching neurodivergent kids to notice — and why it works even when nothing else has
    6. The five cycle-breaking conversations — age-appropriate language for mental load, burnout, and equity
    7. Why rage cleaning is never really about the messy kitchen
    8. The burnout loop — quarterly mommy meltdowns, putting your head down, and repeat
    9. Why self care isn’t enough — and why supportive care needs to be the new conversation
    10. What it’s like to teach an adult partner versus teaching kids — and why those are completely separate things
    11. The full circle moment: how Notice and Do liberated Sam enough to write the book
    12. How to approach this when your kids just don’t care — and why that’s actually fine
    13. What she hopes the next generation looks like when this work takes hold

    Quotes From This Episode

    “Mental load is a whole family issue. Whole family issues require whole family solutions.”

    — Sam Kelly

    “Supportive care needs to be the new self care. Who is caring for the mom?”

    — Sam Kelly

    “It’s not about the messy kitchen. It’s about what that mess is triggering underneath — feeling taken for granted, feeling lonely, feeling unseen.”

    — Sam Kelly

    “This pain ends with us. This ends here and now.”

    — Sam Kelly

    “Notice and Do liberated me enough to create this book. And if it can liberate me at that level, it can liberate anyone.”

    — Sam Kelly


    Resources & Links

    1. Notice and Do (Harper Collins, pre-order now)
    2. Instagram: @samkelly_world
    3. Audio course: available via Sam’s Instagram link
    4. Request at your local library and indie bookstore


    Connect with Ashley:

    Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

    Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

    Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

    Instagram: @mydovetail.app

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    55 分
  • 124. Nobody’s Getting a Medal: Motherhood, Mental Health & Letting Go of the Performance with Amanda Timonere

    124. Nobody’s Getting a Medal: Motherhood, Mental Health & Letting Go of the Performance with Amanda Timonere
    2026/06/12
    Amanda Timonere spent a decade at the top of the clinical world — chief clinical officer of a multi-state mental health and substance use treatment center — before becoming a mom and realizing she wanted to do something different. Not because she couldn’t do the job. Because she was missing time with her kids and because she saw a gap in care for mothers that she was uniquely positioned to fill.Now she runs Zenful Mamas, a private practice and coaching platform built around perinatal mental health and the concept of matrescence — the neurological and psychological transformation of becoming a mother. In this conversation, Ashley and Amanda talk about what that transformation actually looks like, why so many women arrive at motherhood completely unprepared for it, and what it means to break the cycle of the blueprint you didn’t know you were carrying.In This EpisodeWhat matrescence is — and why most mothers have never heard of itThe neurological reality of what happens to our brains when we become parentsHow Amanda’s own anxiety through pregnancy and postpartum led her to this workWalking into motherhood with a generational blueprint you don’t know existsWhy women — especially high-achieving women — resist asking for helpThe difference between therapy and coaching, and how Amanda decides which one a client actually needsHer 12-week program “Rewrite Before You Repeat” — and what it’s designed to doNavigating the relationship between new parents and grandparents when parenting philosophies clashWhy the women who appear to have it all together either have a lot of help or aren’t telling the whole storyThe AI dependency conversation — what it means for mental health support and clinical trainingSolo parenting a two and four year old while running a practice — what that actually looks likeHer vision for Zenful Mamas as a hub for maternal mental health — therapy, coaching, breathwork, Reiki, and moreQuotes From This Episode“We’re walking into motherhood with a blueprint that we don’t even know exists.”— Amanda Timonere“It’s not a matter of weak or strong. There is a neurological change in our mind that’s happening and it’s so far beyond our control.”— Amanda Timonere“Preventative care is the best care.”— Amanda Timonere“Having kids is like holding up a mirror to yourself. It’s like everything is exposed and we’re figuring it out.”— Amanda Timonere“There’s no prize at the end of the day for doing it all perfectly. There’s never going to be a medal ceremony and someone will be the valedictorian of motherhood.”— Ashley BlackingtonResources & LinksZenful Mamas: zenfulMamas.comInstagram: @zenful_mamasZenful Mamas Inner Circle — low-commitment monthly groups for nervous system regulation12-week coaching program: Rewrite Before You RepeatConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    53 分
  • 123. "So I Made One": Betsy Cornwell on Single Parenthood, Writing & the Old Knitting Factory

    123. "So I Made One": Betsy Cornwell on Single Parenthood, Writing & the Old Knitting Factory
    2026/05/29

    Betsy Cornwell saw a gap — artist residencies she qualified for but couldn’t access as a single parent — and instead of waiting for someone else to fill it, she built something herself. She crowdfunded the purchase of a historic 1906 knitting factory on the west coast of Ireland, turned it into a residency and retreat space for other single parent artists, and then wrote a memoir about how all of it happened.

    In this conversation, Ashley and Betsy talk about coming out of an abusive marriage, what it means to write honestly about hard things as a mother, the gap between the writing life you imagine and the one you actually have, and why the accomplishment Betsy is most proud of isn’t her New York Times bestseller or her university teaching post — it’s being a single mom.

    In This Episode

    1. How Betsy became a single parent and why she found herself proud to be one almost immediately
    2. The gap she identified — artist residencies she qualified for but couldn’t access because of caretaking logistics and finances
    3. The castle that didn’t work out, the pivot to the knitting factory, and why this place ended up being a better fit
    4. What crowdfunding a house actually looked like — including the 2am moment when everything came down to the wire
    5. Why she gives residency recipients a cash childcare stipend rather than on-site childcare — and what that trust means
    6. The Smith College Friday Tea tradition and the online community that supported her through the most isolated stretch of her life
    7. Writing about emotional abuse — “he never hit me” — and why that makes some readers deeply uncomfortable
    8. The ethics of writing a memoir as a parent: how she handled writing about her son and his father
    9. Why mother’s silence is not the solution to the complexity of women telling their stories
    10. Writing Ring of Salt on the edge of a bathtub — and what that says about the art you can make in the life you have
    11. Raising her son in an Irish-speaking region of Ireland — and what she’s observed about life in Ireland versus the US
    12. The “keep it alive” approach to creative practice for caregivers
    13. What she hopes happens when someone comes to the Old Knitting Factory and gets to breathe for the first time

    Quotes From This Episode

    “The accomplishment I’m most proud of is being a single mom. And I think that will always be true.”

    — Betsy Cornwell

    “I don’t think the brunt of all that complexity should be borne through the simple solution of mother’s silence. That is not right to me.”

    — Betsy Cornwell

    “The book that I could write is the book that I could write in the life that I have.”

    — Betsy Cornwell

    “Have you kept your art practice alive today? It’s just about keeping it alive.”

    — Betsy Cornwell

    “We’re kicking the bar down the road and wondering why our toe hurts.”

    — Ashley Blackington

    Resources & Links

    1. Ring of Salt (memoir): available at any bookstore or via oldknittingfactory.com
    2. Old Knitting Factory: oldknittingfactory.com
    3. Support the residency on Patreon
    4. All books including YA novels: betsycornwell.com
    5. Friday Tea on Substack: find Betsy on Substack



    Connect with Ashley:

    Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

    Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

    Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

    Instagram: @mydovetail.app

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    59 分
  • 122. "Just Quit. We'll Figure It Out." Leaving corporate to build something of her own with Laura Navaquin

    122. "Just Quit. We'll Figure It Out." Leaving corporate to build something of her own with Laura Navaquin
    2026/05/15

    Laura Navaquin spent nearly 20 years in corporate America before one Wednesday meeting pushed her over the edge. Her husband said “just quit, we’ll figure it out.” She did, and then spent the next few weeks wondering if she’d made a catastrophic mistake before realizing she was exactly where she was supposed to be.

    Today Laura and her husband run four businesses rooted in real estate — a consulting practice, a wholesaling company, a framework for real estate agents called Beyond Commissions, and a contracting business — while raising four kids, three of whom are three and under. In this conversation, Ashley and Laura talk about the messy, non-linear reality of building something from scratch while staying present for the people who matter most.

    In This Episode

    1. Why Laura left corporate after 20 years — it wasn’t the job, it was losing control of her own schedule
    2. The Wednesday she quit on impulse and the fear that followed immediately after
    3. How she and her husband grew their real estate portfolio from four doors to twenty-one in under two years
    4. Why they scaled too fast, stepped back, and what that taught them about sustainable growth
    5. Creative financing — what it is and how it changed what was possible for them
    6. How four businesses became interconnected rather than overwhelming
    7. Beyond Commissions — the real estate agent framework they spent 2025 building and launched in January
    8. The entrepreneur catch-22: needing help, hiring help, and ending up doing it yourself anyway
    9. How they navigate four kids and four businesses — shared office, shared calendar, shared flexibility
    10. Getting kids involved in the business in age-appropriate ways
    11. Why the nine-year-old’s salsa company ambitions are being taken seriously
    12. The shift in how we talk about money, investing, and entrepreneurship with the next generation
    13. Where Laura sees things going — development, fundraising, and building on a larger scale

    Quotes From This Episode

    “Some weeks I take off entirely, or I work weekends and late nights — but I’m still able to work that schedule around my life.”

    — Laura Navaquin

    “Being able to have that flexibility and creativity with the way you do things allows you to pivot and still keep that business alive.”

    — Laura Navaquin

    “When you pressure test the system, then you start to pivot. Then you start to say, what is a reasonable ask for me?”

    — Ashley Blackington

    “I never saw myself in real estate in any capacity — but to see where we are nowadays and all the future plans that we’re making. It’s somewhat comical, but in all the best ways.”

    — Laura Navaquin

    “Non-traditional is becoming traditional.”

    — Ashley Blackington

    Find Laura

    1. LinkedIn & Instagram: @LauraNavaquin
    2. Website: lauranavaqquin.com
    3. Beyond Commissions: beyondcommissions.io




    Connect with Ashley:

    Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

    Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

    Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

    Instagram: @mydovetail.app

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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    52 分