In this special crossover episode with the Crossroads podcast, Peter and Mercedes are joined by The Rev. Jo Nygard Owens and Dr. Sonia Coman of Washington National Cathedral. Together, they explore what it means to engage AI thoughtfully and faithfully—from theological reflection to digital strategy, from ethical caution to spiritual curiosity.

The conversation invites listeners to embrace imagination, resist fear, and reclaim human agency in a rapidly shifting digital landscape.

Topics Covered

• Defining intelligence, agency, and the Imago Dei in a world of machine decision-making
• What “authenticity” means in the age of machine-written texts
• Discernment, formation, and critical thinking across age groups
• The risk of opacity in automated systems and importance of transparency
• Pausing before automation: reclaiming intention, emotion, and spiritual grounding
• Why we need shared vocabulary—and shared discernment—across the Church

Resources Mentioned

• Searches: Selfhood in a Digital Age by Vaushini Vara
• Nexus by Yuval Noah Harari
• Crossroads Podcast from Washington National Cathedral
• Research on AI interpretability by Anthropic

Homework

Reach out to us and let us know how you’ve found generative AI to be useful in church ministry. You can email at info@aichurchtoolkit.com. We’d love to share ideas in our final episode of the season as we consider a round-up of our topics and how things are evolving.

In this episode, Peter speaks with the Rev. Lauren Grubaugh Thomas, founding vicar of Holy Companion Episcopal Church and creator of A Soulful Revolution. Together, they explore the ethical and pastoral complexities of generative AI—its creative potential, its risks, and how the church can faithfully engage with this rapidly evolving technology.

Lauren draws on insights from Octavia Butler’s Parable of the Sower, shares stories from her ministry, and reflects on how spiritual formation, agency, and justice intersect with digital tools. From AI’s inherent bias to the dangers of false intimacy, this episode invites listeners to bring curiosity and caution as they shape change in an AI-shaped world.

Resources Mentioned

• Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler
• Roots and Wings at VTS Center
• A Kid’s Book About AI Bias by Dr. Avril Epps
• “A Soulful Revolution” by Lauren Grubaugh Thomas (Substack)
• Brittany Hartley

Homework

• Lauren invites listeners to reflect on their own use of AI with questions such as:
  • Does this output reflect a just world?
  • Does it reinforce an unfair hierarchy?
  • Does it promote the agency and power of children (and others) to shape the world?

Priest, educator, and digital ministry expert Kyle Oliver joins Peter to explore the possibilities and perils of AI in content creation, Christian formation, and online communication. They reflect on the tension between productivity and presence, and what faithful engagement might look like.

Topics Covered

• Kyle’s cautious experimentation with generative AI in content creation.

• The struggle for creative control and the limits of “black box” tools.
• What happens when beauty is decoupled from intention in digital art and music.
• AI’s impact on church communications and how to maintain a human voice.
• Concerns about AI-generated content overwhelming social platforms.
• The temptation of superhuman productivity and resisting false intimacy.
• Using AI for feedback, coaching, and spiritual discipline—while staying grounded in community.
• Why Christian formation needs to help people remember they are finite and beloved.

Homework

• Reflect on the balance between productivity and intention in your own use of AI.

• Try using AI to offer feedback on one of your recent creative or teaching efforts—then evaluate what’s helpful and what’s not.
• Ask yourself: Does this tool help me flourish—or tempt me to forget I’m human?

Resources

• Kyle Oliver’s Website
  
  
• “Searches: Selfhood in the Digital Age” Vauhini Vara
• Ryan Broderick’s Garbage Day newsletter
• AI Church Toolkit website
• Platformer by Casey Newton
  
  

• (00:00) - Chapter 1
• (00:00) - Chapter 2
• (00:00) - Chapter 3
• (00:00) - Chapter 4
• (00:00) - Chapter 5
• (00:00) - Chapter 6
• (00:00) - Chapter 7
• (00:00) - Chapter 8
• (00:00) - Chapter 9
• (00:04) - How do we respond to AI generated content on social media platforms
• (00:08) - Peter Frum says people need to get in touch with finitude
• (00:09) - OpenAI's ChatGPT could potentially be used for real manipulation
• (00:10) - Modern art seems to have already experienced decoupling of beauty and intention
• (00:12) - I'm reading a book called Search searches Selfhood in a Digital Age
• (00:16) - How do you see Christian formation changing in light of generative AI
• (00:17) - How are you using generative AI in your ministry today
• (00:18) - You are an expert in digital communications ministry as well as Christian formation
• (00:32) - Kyla: In this era we need to resist temptation and evil
• (00:43) - What sci fi world are we living into in this present moment of AI development

In our first interview episode, we sit down with Fr. Lorenzo Lebrija, Executive Director of the TryTank Research Institute, to discuss faithful innovation, the creation of Ask Cathy, the challenges and promises of AI, and how the church can thoughtfully engage this rapidly changing landscape.

Topics covered:

• Introduction to Ask Cathy: An AI resource trained in the Episcopal tradition to assist congregations, especially small ones.
• Plans for future Cathy updates, including liturgy support, pastoral resources, and administrative help.
• Using AI to strengthen—not replace—human relationships in ministry.
• How AI can support spiritual growth through journaling, faith coaching, and pastoral care prompts.
• Discerning faithful innovation: How Tri-Tank evaluates which ideas to pursue.
• The polarization of attitudes toward AI and why thoughtful church engagement matters.
• Ethical considerations: bias in AI training, capitalism’s impact, and the church’s role in shaping AI ethically.
• Practical advice for using AI tools to support inclusion, learning, and community life.

Homework:

• Reflect: How could AI tools like Ask Cathy support your ministry or your congregation’s pastoral care needs?
• Explore: Visit askcathy.ai to see how Cathy works.
• Experiment: Try prompting your AI tool to offer more inclusive or diverse perspectives and reflect on the results.
• Prepare: Think about ways you can frame AI conversations with your congregation if you haven’t already started.

Resources:

• Ask Cathy – Churchy Answers That Help You
• TryTank Research Institute
• AI Church Conference Information
• How to Try by Lorenzo Lebrija (Book on faithful experimentation in ministry)
• Mission Canvas – TryTank’s tool for evaluating new ministry ideas
• Harvard Business Review: How People Are Really Using Gen AI in 2025
• Episcopal Church Task Force on AI and Intellectual Property (ongoing work)
• Living Stories Sermons - Project of Rev. Peter Levenstrong
• Backstory Preaching - Timely & practical support thriving while accomplishing the daily work of preaching

Summary:
How do you introduce AI into your congregation thoughtfully and transparently? In this episode, we share real-life experiences, challenges, and lessons learned about navigating conversations, addressing concerns, and building trust as church leaders using AI.

Show Notes:

• Topics covered:
  
  
  • Mercedes’s step-by-step approach to introducing AI at All Saints’ Episcopal Church.
    Transparency about AI use, including from the pulpit and in vestry discussions.
  • Managing expectations with a Responsible Use Policy.
  • Building trust by sharing examples and demonstrating how AI supports ministry work.
  • Addressing ethical concerns: privacy, protecting human creatives, and environmental impact.
  • Practical advice for other leaders feeling cautious about starting these conversations.

Homework:

• Reflect on how you currently use AI and how you communicate that use to your congregation.
• Consider if your church needs a Responsible Use Policy or clearer communication strategies.
• If you're planning to introduce AI tools, prepare concrete examples to show how they support, not replace, human ministry.

  
  

Resources:

• https://aichurchtoolkit.com/
• https://www.livingstoriessermons.org/
• https://www.backstorypreaching.com/
  
  

• (00:06) - Think about your own organization, where you work. Do you need to have some transparent conversations about using generative AI
• (00:07) - You went on a trip to discuss AI with clergy about sermon writing
• (00:07) - How do you build trust with your parishioners around something as unfamiliar as AI
• (00:14) - Tesla full self driving mode requires you to keep hands on the wheel
• (00:17) - Church uses AI to process SWOT analysis from strategic planning
• (00:19) - Does AI written prayer count as prayer? Well, I have used it
• (00:22) - We tend to focus on the sermon writing, but policies are a red herring
• (00:23) - How did you introduce the idea of using AI to your parish
• (00:27) - If you're working with AI, we recommend starting to communicate early and often
• (00:34) - One parishioner maintained that AI shouldn't be used at all
• (00:35) - Mercedes: Bringing AI up with your congregation requires some preparation
• (00:40) - You have to navigate this transition transparently and pastorally
• (00:44) - Have you ever had to adjust course based on feedback from your congregation
• (00:47) - Mercedes uses AI to help write sermons and revise them
• (00:51) - Is using AI cheating? How would you respond to that question
• (00:53) - How do you decide how frequently to disclose AI use
• (00:57) - I think helping people navigate AI helps them throughout their lives
• (00:59) - There are many ethical and moral questions about using generative AI

Episode 5: Relating to AI

Summary:
Can we have a relationship with AI? In this episode, we explore the human tendency to anthropomorphize AI, the risks of treating it like a person, and how to stay grounded in using it as a tool that supports ministry, without replacing authentic relationships.

Topics covered:

• Why AI is not a relational being and should be treated as a tool.
• Real-world examples of people forming unhealthy attachments to chatbots.
• The dangers of anthropomorphizing AI, especially for youth and vulnerable users.
• How to engage AI intentionally and avoid theological or emotional confusion.
• Strategies for using AI in ministry while maintaining emotional and relational boundaries.

Homework:

• Reflect on how you currently use AI.
• Ask: “Does this enhance relationships or replace them?”
• Identify boundaries you may need to set around emotional or theological engagement with AI.

Resources:

• She Is in Love With ChatGPT
• Andy Masley’s article on AI’s environmental impact
• Antiqua et Nova – Catholic Church, Note on the Relationship Between Artificial Intelligence and Human Intelligence
• OpenAI & MIT Media Lab study on AI and loneliness
• https://aichurchtoolkit.com/
• “AI Technology Panic—is AI Dependence Bad for Mental Health? A Cross-Lagged Panel Model and the Mediating Roles of Motivations for AI Use Among Adolescents”
• "Anthropomorphism in AI"
• "AI anthropomorphism and its effect on users' self-congruence and continuance intention"
• “Anthropomorphism in AI: hype and fallacy”
• Teddy Ruxpin
• Max Headroom

Episode 5: Relating to AI

Summary:
Can we have a relationship with AI? In this episode, we explore the human tendency to anthropomorphize AI, the risks of treating it like a person, and how to stay grounded in using it as a tool that supports ministry, without replacing authentic relationships.

Topics covered:

• Why AI is not a relational being and should be treated as a tool.
• Real-world examples of people forming unhealthy attachments to chatbots.
• The dangers of anthropomorphizing AI, especially for youth and vulnerable users.
• How to engage AI intentionally and avoid theological or emotional confusion.
• Strategies for using AI in ministry while maintaining emotional and relational boundaries.

Homework:

• Reflect on how you currently use AI.
• Ask: “Does this enhance relationships or replace them?”
• Identify boundaries you may need to set around emotional or theological engagement with AI.

Resources:

• She Is in Love With ChatGPT
• Andy Masley’s article on AI’s environmental impact
• Antiqua et Nova – Catholic Church, Note on the Relationship Between Artificial Intelligence and Human Intelligence
• OpenAI & MIT Media Lab study on AI and loneliness
• https://aichurchtoolkit.com/
• “AI Technology Panic—is AI Dependence Bad for Mental Health? A Cross-Lagged Panel Model and the Mediating Roles of Motivations for AI Use Among Adolescents”
• "Anthropomorphism in AI"
• "AI anthropomorphism and its effect on users' self-congruence and continuance intention"
• “Anthropomorphism in AI: hype and fallacy”
• Teddy Ruxpin
• Max Headroom

AI’s environmental impact is a growing concern, but how much energy does it really use? In this episode, we break down common claims about AI’s carbon footprint, explore how it compares to other technologies, and discuss how church leaders can make informed decisions about its use.

Topics covered:

• Common claims about AI’s environmental impact.
• Breaking down AI’s electricity and water usage.
• Comparisons between AI, streaming services, and other digital technologies.
• The difference between AI training and inference.
• How AI efficiency is improving over time.

Homework:

• Research the environmental impact of various AI models.
• If you have a ChatGPT subscription, experiment with different models to see how their efficiency varies.
• Learn which models are best suited for your needs while minimizing energy consumption.

Resources:

• “Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment,” Andy Masley, Jan. 13, 2025
• AI Church Toolkit website

Made possible by the TryTank Research Institute.