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Boardrooms don’t have to look like a scene from a courtroom drama. Alex sits down with Breen Sullivan—former big-law IP attorney turned startup general counsel and founder of The Fourth Effect—to unpack why so many startups avoid boards, how that hesitation quietly limits growth, and what it takes to design advisory and governing structures that actually move revenue, fundraising, and product forward. Breen shares hard‑won lessons from scaling companies, why community and marketplaces weren’t enough to place candidates, and how the real bottleneck sits inside the startup: unclear incentives, no framework, and a semantic fear of the word “board.”

We go deep on the difference between advisory and fiduciary roles, how to compensate and vest advisors against measurable outcomes, and why timing and fit matter as much as resumes. Breen reveals at least 20 advisor archetypes—from the ICP door‑opener to the capital strategist—and shows how the right mix can unlock pilots, close enterprise deals, shorten compliance paths, and prevent avoidable failures. Then we explore AI’s role beyond simple “matching.” The Fourth Effect is building an AI-driven layer that models each startup’s needs, encodes soft skills and leadership styles, and uses agentic workflows to keep relationships aligned, productive, and accountable.

Global expansion gets practical, too. We talk about entering adjacent markets, navigating investor norms, and when to use structures like a Delaware flip. The throughline is simple: create the seats, define the outcomes, align incentives, and let technology accelerate the human work of trust and execution. If you’ve ever wondered how to turn advisors from nice‑to‑have into a compounding advantage, this conversation is your new blueprint.

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