Glenn Wood has spent over 30 years with Seacoast Church. Seacoast Church grew from a congregation of 600 to a 16-campus network reaching roughly 25,000 people each weekend. In this conversation with host James Forrest, Glenn traces that journey — from taking a 70% pay cut to join the church staff, to becoming one of the most respected executive pastors and operations leaders in the country.

Glenn unpacks how dramatically the XP role has expanded, from simple bookkeeping and building maintenance to managing accounting, HR, IT, legal risk, and large-scale construction. He shares hard-won lessons on counting the true cost of building projects (and never forgetting the trash cans), navigating the constant reorganization that comes with multi-site growth, and why the hardest conversations — like addressing underperformance — are often the ones leaders avoid the longest.

The discussion turns personal as Glenn reflects on staying grounded without ever being "the front guy," the importance of building real community with other XPs so you're never facing tough decisions alone, and his own regrets around work-life balance early in his career.

Dan Vander Wal, Executive Pastor at 12Stone Church in Atlanta, GA, joins host James Forrest to share his journey from a business management background into ministry, driven by a conviction that churches should operate with the same excellence and leadership rigor as top organizations — while staying rooted in prayer and dependence on God.

The conversation covers the biggest challenges facing executive pastors today, from the staffing shortage created by economic pressures, a wave of retiring Boomer pastors, and competition from creative agencies, to the growing need for specialized roles like marketing, communications, and IT within churches. Dan also highlights encouraging trends — a renewed openness to faith among Gen Z and young adults, and the momentum behind church planting — alongside real concerns about integrity at the top of large, personality-driven ministries.

Dan closes with a candid look at how he stays grounded: rejecting the myth of "balance" in favor of finding a sustainable rhythm, protecting non-negotiables like workouts, weekly time with his wife, a coach, and taking Fridays off, and his advice for pastors stepping into bigger leadership roles — relax, remember God is building the church (not you).

Tim Stevens brings a rare vantage point to this conversation: over 40 years across five ministry organizations, including executive pastor roles at Granger Community Church and Willow Creek, and now founder of Leading Smart, where he coaches, advises, and gathers executive pastors nationwide. James Forrest talks with him about how the XP role has grown more complex over the past 25 years — from the rise of multi-site churches to the speed at which crises, scandals, and social media pile-ons now unfold compared to a generation ago.

Tim gets specific about how he led Willow Creek through a fragile post-scandal, mid-COVID season — including a striking story about extending grace to a staff member who anonymously trashed leadership on a Zoom call, and a generous, judgment-free "resignation window" that let over 100 people self-select out of an organization that needed a reset, without turning it into a purge. He also breaks down a blind spot common to leaders at every level: information flows downhill, not uphill, meaning executives are often the last to hear the full truth about their own culture — and why getting out of your office and building real feedback loops matters more than any survey.

The conversation moves through practical territory that will resonate with any XP: how to distinguish performance problems from culture problems (and why high performers with poor culture fit are often the most dangerous to ignore), how to develop the next generation of leaders by deliberately handing off pieces of your role, and why succession planning shouldn't be reserved for the lead pastor alone. Tim closes with reflections on leaving organizations without burning bridges, the two years he stayed too long in one role, and his own non-negotiable habit for sustainability: fanatical calendar blocking — treating time with his wife, kids, and health with the same seriousness as any meeting.