In this episode, Lauren welcomes Sarah Cooper, founder of Flamingo Menopause Coaching and a graduate of the Women of a Certain Stage Menopause Coach diploma program. Sarah brings over 10 years of HR experience, specializing in diversity and inclusion strategy, employee experience, and most notably, building workplace belonging—particularly for women navigating menopause.

Sarah's journey from contact center customer service to leading diversity and inclusion initiatives for an entire organization is a masterclass in identifying gaps and creating solutions. When she joined her last corporate role, they were just beginning to explore menopause support. Sarah volunteered to set up the menopause support group from scratch—and what she learned became the framework for seven other employee network groups across the organization.

This conversation explores what diversity and inclusion really means beyond checkbox exercises, why belonging (not just fitting in) is the foundation of workplace culture, how one painting of a flamingo became a business metaphor for creating safe spaces, and why Sarah's "menopause geek" tendencies finally found their perfect outlet after redundancy gave her the push she needed to go all-in on her passion.

If you've ever wondered how to make menopause support feel like genuine cultural change rather than a lunch-and-learn tick-box, or how to transition from corporate security to entrepreneurial freedom, Sarah's story will inspire you.

Key Points Covered:

• From Customer Service to Employee Experience: Sarah started her career in contact centers on the phones, then transitioned into HR about 10 years ago—swapping customer experience for employee experience, which became the foundation for her people-first approach.

• The Menopause Support Group That Changed Everything: When Sarah joined her last company, they were just beginning their menopause journey. She volunteered to set up the menopause support group from scratch, and her learnings from that became the framework for seven other employee network groups across the organization.

• What D&I Actually Means: Diversity and inclusion isn't just about reporting gender pay gaps or diversity in hiring (the "hard elements"). Sarah's strategy was heavily focused on belonging—making sure everyone in the organization felt they had a place, were accepted, understood, and valued for their unique contributions.

• Belonging vs. Fitting In: You can have diversity and inclusion policies without having a diverse workforce. True belonging means diversity of thought, acceptance, finding your place in the organization, and feeling like you truly belong—not just fitting into someone else's mold.

• The Family Analogy (With Caveats): Sarah is resistant to calling workplaces "families" because you're being paid to be there and many families are dysfunctional anyway. But the sense of belonging she aimed for was similar—ensuring women of a certain age don't feel pushed out, misunderstood, or like they no longer belong.

• Culture Starts with Line Managers: Senior leadership matters, but most employees (especially in large contact centers) never interact with the CEO. What makes the real difference is your immediate team and line manager. Do they understand you as a person, not just your role? Do they show kindness, flexibility, and genuine care?

• Common Sense Isn't Common: Sarah's HR mantra: "If we just had managers that use their common sense and were nice people, we wouldn't have HR problems." But somehow that common sense seems to "leave them at the door" when they become managers.

• Lunch-and-Learns Don't Change Culture: One soft lunch-and-learn on menopause (or any topic) doesn't make culture change. Real transformation requires...

In this episode, Lauren welcomes back Carey Peters—actor-turned-entrepreneur, co-founder of Health Coach Institute (HCI), and the coach who taught her how to coach. This is a raw, unfiltered conversation that veers beautifully off-script, touching on everything from voice training and stage presence to psychic downloads, the brutal realities of scaling to eight figures, and why menopause might be the greatest gift of midlife.

Carey brings over 20 years of business-building wisdom, having co-founded Holistic MBA and HCI, which graduated over 40,000 coaches and achieved one of the biggest exits in EdTech history before she stepped away in 2025. Now working privately with founders in the $1-5 million revenue range, Carey shares what she wishes she'd known before building her empire, why most coach training schools are failing their students, and how one to three strategic adjustments can completely transform a business.

This conversation is part masterclass in business strategy, part spiritual journey, and entirely Carey—bold, honest, hilarious, and deeply human. If you've ever wondered whether you should scale or stay small, whether that seven-figure dream is worth the 80-hour weeks, or how to coach with your whole heart while maintaining boundaries, this episode is for you.

Key Points Covered:

• Voice as a Tool: Carey discusses the importance of vocal training for speakers and coaches, drawing from her theater conservatory background. She emphasizes that voice, like clothing and physical embodiment, is an emotional communication tool that requires technique to appear natural.

• Unconscious Competence vs. Conscious Teaching: Carey reveals she's terrible at teaching stage presence because she has "unconscious competence"—she knows how to do it naturally but can't break it down. However, she's an excellent business teacher because she had to learn it step-by-step without natural skill.

• Psychic Coaching & Soul Connections: Before client sessions, Carey receives "full downloads" of what's happening—sometimes relatives come through to chat. She's unsure what's actually happening ("Am I the avatar of a 12-year-old girl in the year 2312?") but trusts what she hears and follows it.

• The Terror Barrier: New coaches hit what Carey calls "the terror barrier"—full-on terror when entering sessions. The scripts in her programs weren't meant to be permanent crutches but "training wheels" to ferry coaches through that initial fear until they gain 1% more confidence.

• The Massive Gap in Coach Training Schools: The biggest players in coach training (especially private equity-owned ones) fail catastrophically at one thing: sharing student success stories. With 40,000 graduates between Holistic MBA and HCI, there should be 20,000 stories showcasing return on investment—but PE-backed schools don't understand information marketing.

• Students Are the Stars, Not the Founders: When PE investors pushed to make HCI an "institution" rather than "the Carey and Stacy show," they missed that the answer was making students the stars. The #1 objection to enrolling is "Will I make my money back?"—and only student stories prove that convincingly.

• The Woman Problem in Coaching: 95%+ of coach training students are women, yet most major schools have no female faces representing the brand. Women need to see other women who've done it, who understand the unique layer of self-doubt, need for permission, and patriarchal limitations wired into female nervous systems.

• It's Only Been 50 Years: In 1974—when Carey was born—women in the US were finally allowed to get their own credit cards without a man. That's only 50 years ago. Women are still emerging from under "the crust of patriarchy" and need female role models who understand that...

In this episode, Lauren Chiren welcomes Kate Atha, a graduate of the Women of a Certain Stage Menopause Coach diploma program who brings a deeply personal and profoundly important perspective to the conversation about surgical menopause, fertility loss, and finding your identity in midlife.

Kate's journey is one that too many women experience in silence—years of battling stage 4 endometriosis, multiple surgeries, a difficult IVF journey, and then waking up from what she hoped would be a partial hysterectomy to discover it was total, effectively ending her fertility dreams in an instant. With minimal psychological preparation, no grief support, and just a prescription for HRT handed to her before discharge, Kate was left to navigate surgical menopause, identity crisis, and profound loss largely on her own.

This conversation explores the devastating gap in support for women who enter menopause through medical intervention, the quiet grief of childlessness that society often dismisses with unhelpful "advice" about adoption, the triggering nature of celebrations like Mother's Day, and how Kate has transformed her pain into purpose by becoming a menopause coach and advocate—both within her corporate HR role and beyond.

Kate also opens up about the changing relationship with alcohol in menopause, the "sober curious" movement, and why she believes menopause is far from a "saturated market"—there's still so much work to do.

Key Points Covered:

• The Endometriosis Journey: Kate suffered with stage 4 endometriosis for years before diagnosis—stuck bowel, removed fallopian tubes, recurring cysts the size of grapefruits. Unlike many endo sufferers with debilitating daily pain, Kate's pain was primarily during menstruation, which delayed proper diagnosis for approximately 8 years (the current average).

• The Doctor's Dismissive Response: When Kate first went to her GP with stomach pain, she was met with "Have you been Googling? You're obviously thinking the worst"—a dismissive response that's all too common for women with endometriosis and other reproductive health conditions.

• The Hysterectomy Shock: Kate consented to various surgical options including total hysterectomy, but conversations with her consultant had been hopeful it wouldn't be that severe. Waking up in recovery still groggy and sick to learn it was indeed a total hysterectomy—with no working ovaries—was devastating.

• Zero Psychological Preparation: The consultant returned hours later to say "You're entering menopause, you'll need HRT" and simply left the room. No grief counseling, no psychological support, no explanation of what surgical menopause would mean—just a prescription to be filled within two weeks.

• The Double Loss: While being told about menopause, Kate's brain wasn't even there yet—she was grieving the end of her fertility journey. Years of IVF (which was "not a really good experience"), countless surgeries, and the dream of biological motherhood had just ended without warning in a recovery room.

• The Fertility Dreams We're Conditioned To Have: Kate speaks honestly about being conditioned that "this is what we do—we're females, we produce babies, we get married, we have kids, we're homemakers"—and the profound grief of that life path being suddenly, permanently closed.

• Time as the Only Healer: Kate describes how "just gradually, bit by bit, it didn't hurt as much"—the rawness of "you are not going to be a biological mum" faded over time. But there are still triggers, particularly around Mother's Day, even though she has a wonderful relationship with her own mother.

• The Unhelpful "Adoption" Suggestions: Well-meaning people asking "Haven't you looked into adoption?" don't understand that for many women, the desire is specifically...

In this episode, Lauren welcomes Sally, a graduate of the Women of a Certain Stage Menopause Coach diploma program who spent decades in executive search, specializing in C-Suite placements and working with some of the most senior women in corporate leadership.

Sally's story is one of intentional transformation—leaving behind a high-powered career not because she had to, but because she wanted to explore what came next. Despite sailing through menopause relatively symptom-free herself, Sally was drawn to the program as a lifelong learner who recognized the profound connection between women's midlife transitions and the executive exits she witnessed throughout her career.

This conversation explores the "mahogany veneer" of wisdom Sally accumulated through thousands of executive interviews, the patterns she observed in senior women's confidence (or lack thereof), the guilt that high-achieving women carry across all aspects of life, and why she believes at least 50% of women leaving C-Suite roles are doing so because of menopause—even though it's rarely discussed.

Sally shares her insights on what it takes to help senior executives break free from their "chrysalis," the power of truth-telling wrapped in compassion, and why she's committed to using her accumulated wisdom to support women through their next chapter.

Key Points Covered:

• The Mahogany Veneer of Wisdom: After decades in executive search conducting thousands of interviews across multiple cultures, industries, and geographies, Sally describes herself as having accumulated a "mahogany veneer"—not mica, but genuine depth—touching on so many aspects of leadership and humanity that it creates profound wisdom.

• The Hidden Menopause-Executive Exit Connection: Sally estimates that at least 50% of women leaving C-Suite roles are doing so because of menopause, yet this connection is rarely (if ever) discussed in conjunction with executive transitions. She's exploring research from CIPD, ACAS, Bank of America, and other financial institutions to investigate this further.

• Why She Trained Despite Not Suffering: Sally was fortunate to sail through menopause with minimal symptoms, but was drawn to the program as a lifelong learner (having completed a master's degree in her 40s and Montessori teacher training in her 30s) who wanted to keep developing skills and expanding knowledge—even if she wasn't initially sure how she'd use it professionally.

• Scratching the Surface of C-Suite Women: Despite impressive accomplishments and senior positions, Sally consistently found that C-Suite women have remarkably little confidence when you scratch the surface. She wonders how much of this is influenced by perimenopause and menopause symptoms that go unrecognized or unaddressed.

• The Transition Crisis: Senior executives—both men and women—struggle profoundly when moving from executive to non-executive careers. Women in particular often feel lost, despite decades of achievement, when making this transition.

• The Sacrifice Required for C-Suite Success: Women who reach C-Suite positions often sacrifice family life, social connections, spiritual development, health, and other life domains in pursuit of excellence. The constant guilt of "never doing anything as well as you should be" at work, with family, or with friends becomes an exhausting burden.

• Double Standards in Leadership: Behaviors that are acceptable and even celebrated in men are deemed "unacceptable" or "aggressive" in women. Sally describes being called an "agitator" or "up for yourself" simply for having opinions and speaking out against unfairness—behaviors that would be called "leadership" in male colleagues.

• Higher Standards for Women: Women are measured differently and held to higher standards,...

In this episode, Lauren welcomes Dr. Peter Greenhouse, a pioneering sexual health physician and menopause specialist who brings decades of clinical experience, a background in comedy, and an unflinching approach to the conversations no one else is having about perimenopause.

Dr. Greenhouse's unique journey—from performing comedy at Cambridge with future greats like Andy Hamilton and Guy Jenkin, to revolutionizing integrated sexual health services, to becoming a sought-after menopause lecturer—gives him a perspective unlike any other doctor. Married to a world expert in menopause and having spent years listening to women's stories, he's learned that the most important symptoms of perimenopause are often the most overlooked.

This conversation challenges conventional thinking about when perimenopause starts, what the first symptoms really are, and why cognitive decline—not hot flashes—is often the earliest and most career-damaging sign. Dr. Greenhouse also tackles the uncomfortable truths about midlife divorce rates, sexual health in older adults, the devastating impact of misdiagnosis, and why estrogen affects literally every system in your body—from your vocal cords to your ACL rupture risk.

With humor, humanity, and hard science, this episode will change how you think about the menopausal transition.

Key Points Covered:

• Cognition Comes First: The first symptom of perimenopause isn't hot flashes—it's cognitive decline. Brain fog, forgetfulness, and reduced mental sharpness often appear years before temperature regulation issues, directly impacting work performance and leading many women to believe they're "just depressed."

• Perimenopause Starts Earlier Than You Think: While textbooks say perimenopause begins 5 years before menopause (mid-40s), Dr. Greenhouse regularly sees women in their late 30s with clear perimenopausal symptoms—especially if their mothers had early menopause. Some women experience a 15-year menopausal transition.

• The Misdiagnosis Cascade: Women go to their GP with joint pain, get MRIs showing nothing wrong. Then palpitations lead to ECGs. Then migraines lead to scans. Years pass with multiple specialists investigating separate symptoms while no one connects the dots to perimenopause—causing reactive depression from feeling like everything is falling apart.

• Estrogen's Jaw-Dropping Effects Throughout the Body:

• Athletes: Women are 8x more likely to rupture their ACL than men, with most ruptures occurring on the day of menstruation or mid-cycle estrogen drops
• Asthma: 25% of all hospital admissions for near-fatal and fatal asthma occur on the day of menstruation due to reduced rib flexibility
• Opera singers: Have it written into contracts that they don't perform the week before their period because they lose half an octave off the top of their range
• Warm-up time: Female athletes need to warm up 3x longer before exercise when menstruating due to reduced joint flexibility

• The Mid-40s Perfect Storm: Age 44 marks the peak age for divorce, highest rates of certain STIs in women, and highest female suicide rates—all correlating with the cognitive dip of early perimenopause when women are most likely to be misdiagnosed and given antidepressants instead of HRT.

• Blood Tests Are Useless for Perimenopause: Unlike premature menopause (which shows up in blood work), perimenopause blood tests are completely normal. The only blood test needed is thyroid function, as hypothyroidism can mimic perimenopause symptoms.

• Antidepressants Are the Wrong Answer: When women present with cognitive decline and resulting reactive depression, antidepressants flatten mood, joy, and creativity without addressing any...

In this episode, Lauren is joined by Tracey Robertson, a menopause coach and corporate legal PA who transformed her darkest moments into a mission to support other women through perimenopause and menopause.

Tracey shares her raw and powerful story of hitting rock bottom at age 45—leaving a successful corporate career in London, experiencing crippling anxiety and depression, and sitting in a park in the rain because she couldn't bear to go home. Despite having access to private healthcare at Harley Street, blood tests, and multiple doctors, no one identified that she was in perimenopause. It wasn't until her personal trainer suggested HRT that Tracey's life began to change—feeling better within 15 hours of her first patch.

This conversation explores Tracey's journey from that breaking point to becoming a certified menopause coach through Women of a Certain Stage, building workplace support programs, and helping other women avoid the isolation and confusion she experienced. Her story is a testament to resilience, the power of lived experience, and the importance of creating communities where women can be heard and supported.

Key Points Covered:

• The Breaking Point: How perimenopause manifested as severe anxiety, depression, inability to perform basic work tasks, and suicidal thoughts—all while doctors missed the diagnosis despite regular blood tests and private healthcare access.

• HRT as a Lifeline: Tracey's experience of feeling improvement within 15 hours of starting HRT, emphasizing how life-changing appropriate treatment can be when hormonal imbalance is the root cause—not just anxiety or mental health issues.

• Misdiagnosis & Inappropriate Treatment: Being prescribed anti-anxiety medications that made symptoms worse, undergoing CBT, and the dangers of treating perimenopause symptoms as purely psychological without addressing hormonal changes.

• Finding Purpose Through Pain: How watching Davina McCall's menopause documentary and recognizing herself in other women's stories inspired Tracey to become a coach—determined that no one else should go through this alone and searching for support groups that didn't exist in London.

• The Power of Listening: Learning through menopause coaching training that simply being heard and having space to process emotions can be transformative—practice clients experienced significant changes just from having someone listen without judgment, including a 36-year-old client who felt angry and let down by her body.

• Building Workplace Support: Creating menopause support groups in her law firm, bringing in medical experts like doctors from Menopause Care (Dr. Andrews) and nutritionists, organizing coffee mornings and Q&A sessions, and working to establish group coaching programs in corporate environments.

• From Quiet Introvert to Confident Coach: Tracey's journey from being too anxious to speak in large groups to now delivering presentations and running support sessions—proving that you don't need to be loud or extroverted to be an effective coach. Starting with breakout room confidence and building to full presentations.

• The ADHD Connection: Exploring the intersection between ADHD, perimenopause, and how hormonal changes can unmask or exacerbate neurodivergent traits—a growing area of interest for future support work, particularly relevant as both her sons are being assessed for ADHD.

• Practical Menopause Plan Tools: Implementing simple but effective strategies from coaching training like drinking more water, using sensory anchoring (lavender rollers for stress management), decluttering for mental clarity, and creating personalized menopause plans that address individual needs.

• Live Learning Matters: Why Tracey...

In this dynamic conversation, host Lauren is joined by Carey Peters, who shares her incredible 20-year entrepreneurial journey from being a professional actress to co-founding a multi-million dollar coaching business.

Carey opens up about her initial, unsteady start as a coach, realizing her first training didn't teach her how to coach effectively. She discusses the turning point where she committed to learning both coaching and online marketing (including direct response copywriting), which led to her first six-figure year. She details the explosive growth of Holistic MBA (HMBA), which she co-founded with Stacy, with the mission of providing business training for people who don't naturally identify as business-minded.

The episode provides a rare look at the operational challenges of scaling a business past the $3 million mark. Carey emphasizes the vital need for a defined business operating system for founders who are talented marketers but lack operational expertise. Finally, she shares candid details about preparing a personal-brand business for sale and the importance of a strategic buyer in an eventual exit.

Key Timestamps

[00:04:00] Carey's 20-year entrepreneurial journey, beginning with a voice asking, "Are you ready for a ride?".

[00:05:00] Her background as a working actor for 15 years and never having seen herself as a business person.

[00:07:00] Starting coaching as a "side gig" and the realization that her initial training was great for personal growth but not for coaching skills.

[00:10:00] The shock of hitting her first six-figure year as an entrepreneur, breaking her perception of what she was capable of.

[00:11:00] The pivot: learning direct response copywriting and online marketing to build her coaching business.

[00:13:00] How a "failed" money program launch led her to business partner Stacy and the idea for Holistic MBA (HMBA).

[00:15:00] The foundational concept of HMBA: business training for people who don't particularly like or identify with business.

[00:16:00] HMBA's rapid growth: hitting $500,000 in the first year (2010), then scaling to over $3 million before hitting a plateau.

[00:18:00] The necessity of a business operating system (and the reference to the book Traction) to scale past the founder's capacity.

[00:19:00] The "crossroads" for charismatic founders between $1 million and $5 million: becoming an operator or stagnating.

[00:24:00] The process of selling HMBA to a strategic buyer and the surprising fact that their near-$10 million business was built almost entirely through organic marketing.

[00:46:00] Final words of encouragement: you can build a business without a traditional background; it just takes tenacity, resilience, and heart.

• The crucial difference between personal growth-focused coaching training and the market-ready skills needed for a sustainable business.
• 
  
• Why learning direct response copywriting was the single biggest skill that launched her to a six-figure income.
• 
  
• The $1 Million to $5 Million crossroads: why founders must transition from being just a marketer to becoming an operator to scale.
• 
  
• The essential need for a Business Operating System to manage complexity and grow past the "founder's capacity."
• 
  
• Key insights on building a business for a strategic exit, including the unexpected role organic marketing played in their multi-million...

In this game-changing episode of Women of a Certain Stage, host Lauren sits down with Laura Mzhickteno, a copywriting expert with a decade of experience helping coaches, authors, and speakers translate their expertise into clear, compelling messages. If you've ever stared at a blank Instagram post wondering "how do I say this?" or felt paralyzed by your own messaging, this conversation is your permission slip to start imperfectly.

Laura shares her journey from attending random webinars on fish-catching (seriously) to building a thriving copywriting business. She reveals why messaging clarity comes from working with clients—not from hiding in your hole trying to make it perfect first. With refreshing honesty about her own six-figure student loan debt and the ROI crisis in traditional education, Laura explains why coaching certifications are becoming the new degree alternative.

This conversation tackles the fear of "being too salesy," the chicken-and-egg of getting client feedback to create messaging, and why marketing at its best is simply spreading important messages to people who need them most. Lauren and Laura explore how coaching expands our vision from "just making it through the workday" to building second acts that matter.

Plus: Laura shares the three things you must communicate clearly, why your Instagram bio matters more than you think, and the perfect gift-under-the-tree analogy that will change how you think about sharing your work with the world.

[00:01:00] Meeting years ago: learning storytelling secrets as a "fledgling menopause trainer"

[00:02:00] The unglamorous answer: a decade of training, practice, research, certifications

[00:03:00] Common hurdle: everyone knows what to say but not how to say it

[00:04:00] Three things to communicate: problem, result, different approach

[00:05:00] Message refinement happens with clients, not in isolation

[00:06:00] Patterns in client feedback reveal your real messaging

[00:07:00] Why avatars with names/ages miss the point—it's about attributes

[00:08:00] Laura's decade in coaching/author/speaker marketing

[00:09:00] When Laura's parents were shocked: "You could get a car for that!"

[00:10:00] Coaching becoming mainstream: "Yeah, my team needs coaching"

[00:11:00] UK university fees vs. US six-figure student loan debt reality

[00:12:00] Six years of time + six figures of debt = terrible ROI

[00:13:00] Degrees don't make you workplace ready—just entry level

[00:14:00] Certification programs: fraction of cost, ready to do meaningful work

[00:15:00] Retraining as personal trainer: made same money as corporate career

[00:16:00] Four grads gathered in Boston to support each other's event

[00:17:00] Don't wait for perfect—feedback loop only happens by doing

[00:18:00] But also: don't try to tackle too much too fast

[00:19:00] The chicken-and-egg: getting feedback to create messaging

[00:20:00] Start with the platform you're most comfortable with

[00:21:00] Practice clients inform what to say on social media

[00:22:00] Monthly scheduling stress lifted: planning 3-6 months ahead

[00:23:00] Getting in early: 10-15 minutes can propel business forward

[00:24:00] Coming into Menopause Coach Diploma to help each person individually

[00:25:00] Not everyone wants to be a six or seven-figure coach

[00:26:00] Understand how things...