This week’s episode with Colin Kaepernick was recorded live at Marcus Books in Oakland, California. Kamau opens by thanking Kaepernick for his book, The Perilous Fight, which reached #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.

The conversation turns to Kaepernick's 2016 protest. Kamau reads Kaepernick's famous quote about refusing to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses Black people. Kaepernick explains that this statement came from years of study and reading, rather than a pre-planned remark. He credits reporter Steve Wyche for handling the story thoughtfully: pulling him aside privately rather than pressing him in public, warning him of the potential fallout, and seeking permission before publishing.

They address a widely circulated misconception that veteran Nate Boyer convinced Kaepernick to kneel. Kaepernick clarifies that teammate Eric Reid proposed kneeling as a way to maintain a respectful posture while continuing the protest. The 49ers then arranged a meeting with Boyer, who initially agreed to kneel alongside them but backed out at the last minute, citing his oath, choosing to stand beside them instead. Kaepernick describes Boyer's subsequent actions as opportunistic: misrepresenting the story, profiting off T-shirts featuring Kaepernick alongside an MLK quote, excluding Reid, and leveraging the moment into movie roles. Rather than correct the record publicly at the time, Kaepernick and Reid chose to keep the focus on the underlying issue.

The discussion shifts to Kaepernick's upbringing in Turlock, California, a predominantly white town, where he was raised by adoptive white parents. He describes constantly facing questions about his background and appearance, finding solidarity with other non-white peers, and lacking Black mentors to guide him on cultural matters and hair care. Though his parents were loving, their emphasis on assimilation created tension around his style, hair, music, and culture. He found inspiration in Black athletes who succeeded while staying themselves unapologetically. Figures like Allen Iverson, Randy Moss, and Ken Griffey Jr.

When discussing his racial identity, Kaepernick states simply, "I'm Black," dismissing debates over racial categorization as divisive tactics meant to fragment the community.

Kamau brings up Jay-Z's partnership with the NFL. Kaepernick explains that after trying to reach Jay-Z to collaborate, Jay-Z only called him the day before his official NFL press conference. Kaepernick pushed back strongly, accusing Jay-Z of "selling the culture out to a bunch of racists." He contextualizes this decision by pointing to a 2017 NFL owners' meeting where Panthers owner Terry Pegula explicitly advocated for finding "a Black face" to help end the protests, comparing the strategy to the NRA using Charlton Heston.

Kaepernick details the work of the Know Your Rights Camp, which he launched following the 2015 killing of Mario Woods. Originally focused on legal rights education, the initiative has expanded to encompass holistic community support, including funding free second autopsies in cases of police custody deaths, providing legal defense for 2020 protesters, and distributing PPE, rent relief, and grants to Black-owned businesses during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Reflecting on his status as a cultural icon, Kaepernick hopes people who wear his jersey translate symbolic support into tangible action, emphasizing the life-and-death stakes behind the movement.

He concludes with a lighthearted story about his four-year-old daughter challenging him at the dinner table, giving a glimpse into "what I'm going to be navigating for the rest of my life.”.

Who's With Me is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Chris Dowd. Distributed by Pushkin Industries.

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The podcast opens with Kamau giving Rafael his flowers. Rafael, who has lived in LA for seven years, insists he still identifies Berkeley and Oakland as home, describing his time in LA as an extended work trip.

The conversation moves into Rafael's background in the Bay Area youth poetry scene, where he competed in the National Poetry Slam and earned a reputation. Around season three of Def Poetry Jam, producers sought out younger voices and brought Rafael on at age 18. He describes being a nervous, skinny kid staring at the ground on stage, having never memorized a poem before. He was one of the first people to convert his clip from VHS and upload it to YouTube, where it reached a million views, a rare feat at the time. He then toured colleges for a decade off that single clip.

During this period, Rafael and his childhood friends opened a recording studio in a North Oakland warehouse, where he first began collaborating with Daveed Diggs. He later took a role as creative director of a poetry scholarship program at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he also worked toward a degree, finishing four credits shy of completion.

The interview touches on Rafael's identity as a white Latino, the complexity of Hispanic racial identity, and the importance of honest self-placement within conversations about race and representation in Hollywood.

The conversation closes with Rafael discussing his commitment to the Bay Area community, including efforts around the Oakland film incentive, the Baylist initiative connecting Bay Area media makers, and a call for investment in local film infrastructure. He reflects on the importance of mentorship and passing permission to younger artists, citing an encounter with Jim Carrey as a defining moment of validation.

Donate to #Makeitbay at https://makeitbay.org and to Youth Speaks at https://youthspeaks.org

Who's With Me is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Chris Dowd. Distributed by Pushkin Industries.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re sharing an episode of No Such Thing, a show where Manny Fidel, Devan Joseph and Noah Freidman—three best friends and journalists—argue about stuff, like friends do, but instead of just yelling at each other on the internet, they actually go find out the answer In this episode, they dive into the reading crisis in America. They speak with children’s author Jason Reynolds, professor Paul Thomas, and public school teacher Kelsey Clodfelter to answer: are kids no longer reading? And if so, why does it matter?

Listen to No Such Thing On Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every Wednesday.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.