How does a good leader end up in a mess? In the fourth conversation of Lead Embodied: Wisdom for Leading Through Uncertainty, Rhodes Perry sits down with Jess Pettitt, author of Doing Good Better, to explore what happens when the problems we avoid begin to shape our organizations and our own capacity to lead.

Drawing from her candid and practical work with leaders and organizations, Jess shares what she's learned about recognizing dysfunction, having the conversations we'd rather avoid, navigating defensiveness and overwhelm, and using what isn't working as a catalyst for meaningful change. Together, Rhodes and Jess explore how these lessons can help leaders stay present, tell the truth about what's happening, and find the courage to lead what comes next.

Why Courage Belongs in Leadership

Leading through uncertainty doesn't mean having everything figured out. It requires the willingness to stay present, tell the truth, and engage with what's actually happening. In this conversation, we explore how:

• Difficult Conversations Create Possibility. The conversations we avoid can allow dysfunction to grow. Naming what's happening creates an opportunity for greater honesty, alignment, and change.
  
  

• Awareness Can Interrupt Dysfunction. Defensiveness, overwhelm, and other internal experiences can shape how we lead. Noticing what's happening within us can create more space to choose how we respond.
  
  

• Dysfunction Can Become a Catalyst. When something isn't working, leaders can use that moment not simply to return to normal, but to ask what the situation is revealing and what needs to change.
  
  

• Courage Without Certainty. How do we stay present enough to tell the truth, have the conversation, and lead what comes next when we don't know exactly how the conversation will unfold?

• 📚 Read Jess' Story. Explore Doing Good Better, Jess Pettitt's newest book helping leaders who find themselves in over their heads find their way back.
• 🌱 Explore Lead Embodied. Learn more about Rhodes' forthcoming book and the Lead Embodied approach to navigating uncertainty with greater presence, authenticity, and ease: www.rhodesperry.com/leadembodied
• 🎓 Join the Lead Embodied Course. Experience the practices and principles of Lead Embodied through a six-week journey designed for leaders navigating change, uncertainty, and growth. www.rhodesperry.com/leadembodiedpath
• ✉️ Stay Connected with Rhodes. Subscribe to the Rhodes Perry Leads newsletter for reflections, practices, and invitations to lead embodied, build belonging, and transform what's possible: www.rhodesperry.com/subscribe
• 🎙️ Follow the Imagine Belonging Podcast. Continue the conversation and explore upcoming episodes in the Lead Embodied: Wisdom for Leading Through Uncertainty author series. Thank You for Growing the #BelongingMovement! www.rhodesperry.com/podcast