What if the advice to avoid talking about politics is actually making everything worse? In our first-ever guest interview, we sit down with Monica Guzman - author of "I Never Thought of It That Way," and advisor at Braver Angels to talk about how to have fearlessly curious conversations in dangerously divided times.

Monica doesn't sugarcoat it: America is fraying. Social media has made it easy to be incurious while feeling righteous, and "conflict entrepreneurs" are profiting off our division. But she believes the only way forward is to keep talking to each other, especially across disagreement.

Her advice for navigating political conversations - especially during the holidays: • Know what you're after: connection or persuasion?

• Step away from social media and have tough conversations face-to-face

• Ask "how" instead of "why" - invite people to share their story, not defend their position

• Remember that curiosity and grace are contagious

Monica shares a powerful story about bringing liberal Seattleites to meet conservative Oregon farmers. What they discovered: we're all terrible at estimating what the "other side" really thinks. Studies show both liberals and conservatives wildly overestimate support for extreme positions like political violence. The best intervention? Talking to real people, not caricatures.

Some argue America should split into "Divided States." Monica pushes back hard: that's a lie pushed by extremes for political gain. The truth? The more time we spend only with people who agree with us, the dumber we get. We need each other to make wise decisions for a healthy society.

Is there hope? Absolutely. The revolution isn't happening in halls of power - it's happening in living rooms, coffee shops, and podcasts. People choosing dialogue over dismissal are the real counterculture.

Monica leaves us with "sonder" - the realization that every person has a life as vivid and complex as your own. When we remember that, everything changes.

Read Monica's book "I Never Thought of It That Way" and join the movement toward fearless curiosity.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 - Introduction: Why We Talk Across Political Divides

00:21 - Meet Monica Guzman: Author of "I Never Thought of It That Way"

01:36 - Is America More Divided Than Ever?

03:14 - Social Media, Outrage, and the Curiosity Crisis

05:27 - How to Have Difficult Conversations With Family

08:09 - The Power of Curiosity and Grace in Bridge Building

09:49 - Why "How" Questions Work Better Than "Why"

11:57 - Breaking Down Misconceptions About the Other Side

14:16 - Monica’s Sherman County Project: Liberals Meet Conservatives

18:30 - What Urban and Rural America Can Learn From Each Other

21:58 - Are We Really Hopelessly Divided?

24:16 - Why We Need Each Other: The Beating Heart of Democracy

27:00 - Signs of Hope: The Revolution of Conversation

29:10 - Sonder: Seeing the Humanity in Everyone

30:53 - Would You Rather: Monica’s Game on Difference

33:44 - Final Thoughts and Thank You to Monica Guzman

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Connect with Monica:

https://www.moniguzman.com/book

https://braverangels.org/author/moniguzmangmail-com/

LINKS

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On Apple Podcasts:

There's a massive group of Americans we don’t talk enough about; people who work full-time, pay their taxes, and still can't afford basic necessities. They earn too much to qualify for government assistance but too little to actually survive. They're called ALICE: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed. And they represent 38 million households (29% of America). Combined with those below the federal poverty line, that's 55 million households, or 42% of the entire country, struggling to make ends meet.

I (Jolene) learned about ALICE through a friend who works for United Way, and honestly, it changed how I think about poverty in America. As a conservative, I've always believed in personal responsibility and hard work. But ALICE represents people who are doing everything right - working full-time jobs, showing up every day, contributing to society, and yet they still can't make ends meet. That's not a character failure. That's a system failure.

Nicole's perspective as a liberal aligns with mine on this more than you'd expect. She sees ALICE as proof that the social safety net has massive gaps. You can work full-time and still not afford childcare, housing, transportation, and healthcare. The federal poverty line is outdated and doesn't reflect the actual cost of living, which is exactly why United for ALICE created the Household Survival Budget. This is a metric that reflects the real minimum costs of necessities like housing, childcare, food, transportation, healthcare, and technology, plus taxes, adjusted for every county in the United States.

You can get involved with United for ALICE through their website at unitedforalice.org or through United Way in your state. You can donate, volunteer, or advocate for policies that support working families. You can also just start talking about this issue, because the first step to solving a problem is acknowledging it exists.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

United for ALICE:

https://www.unitedforalice.org/ United Way: https://www.unitedway.org/ United Way National Overview (Interactive Map): https://unitedforalice.org/national-overview#4.5/36.316/-95.842

Books: Abundance by Ezra Klein: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488

Good for the Soul:

Ezra Klein & Spencer Cox: https://youtu.be/WJB87niNCk0?si=o7alUusFQMsS1I-6

Social Media/Inspiration:

James Talarico (Instagram):

https://www.instagram.com/jamestalarico/?hl=en

Plumes Officiel (Instagram):

https://www.instagram.com/plumesofficiel/

Business Resources:

Mark Cuban MasterClass - Win Big in Business: https://www.masterclass.com/classes/win-big-in-business/chapters/win-big-in-business Mark

Cuban Cost Plus Drug...

Thanksgiving is supposed to be about gratitude, family, and great food - but with tensions running high in America, the holidays might feel more charged than usual. In this episode, we share how to actually enjoy Thanksgiving without avoiding meaningful conversation or ending up in a screaming match.

Growing up, our Thanksgivings looked different but felt the same: togetherness, gratitude, and way too much food. Now as adults with our own traditions and chosen families, we've learned something crucial: curiosity beats judgment every single time.

When someone says something you disagree with at the dinner table, what if you asked a genuine question instead of arguing? Questions that start with "how" instead of "why" invite conversation instead of confrontation. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that affect you personally? These questions create understanding instead of arguments.

Everyone is the protagonist in their own story, operating from their own experiences and values. When you approach conversations from that perspective, it's easier to listen without immediately judging.

This doesn't mean agreeing with everything or abandoning your boundaries. It means approaching disagreement with curiosity about how someone arrived at their position, rather than dismissing them.

We're proof that people with completely different political views can genuinely enjoy each other's company. The secret isn't agreeing on everything; it's respecting each other enough to listen, ask questions, and assume good faith.

This Thanksgiving, approach your gathering with an open heart and genuine curiosity. Set boundaries if needed, but don't avoid all meaningful conversations just because they might be uncomfortable. Some of the best memories come from real conversations where vulnerability and honesty create connection instead of conflict.

Happy Thanksgiving from two friends who prove that liberals and conservatives can break bread together without breaking each other.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Luby's:

https://www.lubys.com/

Kerrygold USA:

https://www.kerrygoldusa.com/

Good for the Soul:

People Choosing Kindness (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/peoplechoosingkindness/

Tangle:

https://youtu.be/_ys-UNz5U24?si=sNsUCJ3LVAreVQWN

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/