We're joined by Jack Gough, CEO of the Invasive Species Council, to talk about protecting Australian wildlife, including when that means culling other animals. We get into feral cats, the Brumby wars, and how a feral horse became a protected heritage item in a national park. We also ask why every conversation about the environment becomes a debate about climate change, and whether conservation should be a natural fit for conservatives.

We then take a deep dive into bird flu, what it could mean for Australian wildlife, and how dead birds on beaches might shift the politics of the environment. Damian explains his “inverse pyramid of f!cks given”, and we talk egg prices, pets, tourism, and when an environmental problem becomes everyone's problem. We finish with immigration, housing, and whether a stronger connection to Australian nature could give us something to agree on. Plus our usual Kiss of Death predictions, and Jack gives us a reason to worry about honey bees. Because apparently the cats and horses weren't enough.

• 00:00 Introduction, Victorian Potholes and Poison of Choice
• 03:41 Introducing Jack Gough
• 06:15 What Does the Invasive Species Council Do?
• 09:11 What Makes a Species Invasive?
• 11:31 Cane Toads, Rabbits and Biological Controls
• 15:52 Feral Cats and Australia's Extinction Problem
• 19:05 The Brumby Wars: Heritage, Horses and Politics
• 24:24 Conservation, Conservatives and Climate Change
• 28:14 Has Climate Change Swallowed the Environment Debate?
• 30:57 Bird Flu: What's at Stake for Australian Wildlife?
• 37:39 Preparing for Wildlife Loss and Building Resilience
• 39:59 The Inverse Pyramid of F!cks Given
• 42:34 Egg Prices, Beaches and the Politics of Bird Flu
• 47:32 Why Not Just Let Nature Take Its Course?
• 51:16 Custodianship and Australia's Changing Landscapes
• 52:37 Immigration and Our Connection to the Bush
• 58:46 Population, Nature and a Shared Australian Story
• 01:02:58 Immigration, Housing and the Skills We Need
• 01:06:22 Kiss of Death: China, AI and Bird Flu
• 01:08:44 Culling, Honey Bees and a Live Show Teaser