This is a secret episode we almost didn't release. Eric (vibe-coder, can't read code) and his cousin Jason (a software engineer) sat down to build a family app for their ageing grandparents. What you'll hear is a distilled 2.5h chat, with a brief demo near the end.

We're releasing it because the mess is the whole point. If you're curious about vibe coding but scared to start, this is what it actually sounds like when two real people try.

Key takeaways:
- Get the AI to grill you before you build. Jason had it question his intent and features until they reached shared understanding - no code until then.
- Leave the technical details out of planning. Focus on the job to be done and who's using it; the stack decisions come later.
- Planning is painful but it pays off. An hour of arguing and changing our minds upfront beats iterating ten times on the wrong prototype.
- A software engineer meets Claude/Opus for the first time and reacts to how it works vs his usual Cursor setup.
- You don't need a finished product to start. We ended on a mock app - grab a friend, your cousin, your kids, and just start building.

Hosts: Eric Tan (non-technical builder). Yaohong Ch'ng is the usual co-host - this episode is Eric solo with a guest.
Guest: Jason - software engineer, Eric's cousin, daily Cursor + Sonnet 4.5 user trying Claude/Opus for the first time.

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A few terms you'll hear:
- Vibe coding: building software by telling an AI what you want in plain English, instead of writing code yourself.
- Claude / Opus / Sonnet: Claude is the AI assistant; Opus is the bigger, pricier model Eric uses, Sonnet the faster, cheaper one Jason uses at work.
- Cursor: a code editor with AI built in - Jason's daily tool.
- Plan mode: a Claude Code setting where it asks you questions and writes a plan before building anything.
- Notion as a database: using Notion to store the app's data instead of paying for a proper database - a cheap shortcut with limits.
- Mock data: fake placeholder content used to see how the app looks before real data goes in.

Connect with us:
- Eric on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erictisme/
- Jason on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ysjasonchen/
- Email: code.riffs.ai@gmail.com

Code Riff - messy real-world problems, solved with AI, so you can too.