Dena Ali was a police officer for five years before an episode of Rescue Me showed her that women could be firefighters. Eighteen years later, she's a Battalion Chief with the Raleigh Fire Department, founder of North Carolina's statewide peer support team, Program Manager of Behavioral Health for the First Responder Center for Excellence, and author of Hope Out of Darkness: A Guide to First Responder Mental Wellness.

Recorded live at the FRCE Health and Wellness Symposium at the University of Iowa, this conversation covers the ideas at the center of her book: hope as a cognitive skill built through struggle, the surprising research on play and humor, psychological safety as the freedom to fail (with lessons the fire service can steal from NASA after Columbia), and the practical mechanics of peer support, from the kitchen table conversation after a bad call to asking someone directly whether they're thinking about suicide.

Her hardest-won stance: first responders are not victims. They carry more protective factors than most people, and the solutions in her book are human solutions, not just fire service ones.

Content note: this episode includes frank discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988 (US) any time.

Get the book: Hope Out of Darkness at fireengineeringbooks.com or Amazon.

First Responder Center for Excellence: firstrespondercenter.org

This episode is brought to you by SPOKE, our Founding Premier Sponsor and Film Partner. Watch the trailer at spokemovie.com

IN MEMORY OF
SENIOR FIREFIGHTER JOSH LULL
RALEIGH FIRE DEPARTMENT · RESCUE 16 · C-SHIFT
END OF WATCH APRIL 19, 2026