Professor Chen takes the listener on an amazing journey as she discusses the contents of the book, "Broken Promises", with its author Andy "The Storyteller" Lewter. From the Horrors of the Black Wall Street Riots in Tulsa, OK to the glittering and polished boardrooms of modern day Manhattan, you are introduced to a story unlike you have ever heard before, based upon Genesis 38.

"The Pope and the President" — is a remarkable piece of public intellectual work. It takes the tools of serious historical scholarship and applies them to a current crisis without either reducing the past to a simple lesson or losing the concrete urgency of the present. Professor Chen and Bishop Lewter model the kind of conversation that is all too rare in contemporary discourse: one in which the questions are genuinely more important than the answers, in which complexity is honored rather than flattened, and in which the weight of the past is brought to bear not to tell us what to think but to deepen our capacity to see. In an era of rapid-fire takes and shallow historical analogies, this episode stands as an example of what careful, courageous thinking about power, conscience, and faith actually looks like.