What happens when you strip away sleep, ego, and every external measure of success for 330 kilometers? Doug Mayer, founder of Run the Alps, former Car Talk producer, and three-time Tour de Géants finisher, has spent years trying to answer that question.

His new graphic novel, Last of the Giants, is his best attempt yet. In this episode, Doug joins Zoë and Brendan to talk about leaving a 25-year career in radio to build a trail running tour company in Chamonix, why he kept going back to one of the world's most grueling ultramarathons, and how he translated the experience of hallucinating in a snowstorm at 3am into a visual story. He shares what he learned from interviewing neuroscientists, a Buddhist monk who specializes in suffering, and the world's leading expert on pilgrimages, all in service of understanding why we do hard things and what we bring back from them. The conversation touches on "meeting the dragon" (a Buddhist concept for the moment when your usual tools stop working), the hero's journey, why Tour de Géants feels like "the PhD of ultrarunning," and how Doug accidentally started dating someone mid-race because her prefrontal cortex was too exhausted to know better.

Links: • Last of the Giants by Doug Mayer, available at Bookshop.org, Amazon, and wherever books are sold

•Run the Alps – trail running tours in the European Alps

•Running Warehouse – gear guides and the Salomon Genesis

•Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races – May 30, 2026 (10k, half, 50k, 50 miler) More from UltraSignup Podcasts:

•The Buzz with Buzz Burrell – deep dives into ultrarunning culture and philosophy

•Between Two Pines – A trail running podcast that doesn't take itself too seriously

Pat Cade has a PhD in mathematics, coaches high school cross country in Leadville, Colorado, and has finished the Leadville 100 six times. In this conversation, he explains what years of research math taught him about endurance: small steady progress compounds, inspiration only strikes if you're showing up every day, and sometimes the breakthrough comes when you stop following the plan and just go climb the mountain because it's beautiful outside.

Pat shares how he and his wife landed in Leadville after leaving academia in New York, and how they decided to pour their energy into coaching and teaching after facing infertility. He breaks down what actually makes a good coach (hint: it's not yelling), why training at 10,000 feet requires rethinking everything you learned about recovery, and what the Leadville 100's Dream Chaser program is all about. He also attempts to explain his dissertation, including whether the universe might be shaped like a donut, in terms anyone can follow. Zoë and Brendan are mostly able to keep up.

This episode is brought to you by LMNT, the tasty electrolyte drink mix with sodium, potassium, and magnesium. Pro tip for winter: heat up their chocolate salt or chocolate caramel flavors for a hydration hack that doubles as hot cocoa. And if you missed it, the fan-favorite lemonade salt is back full time. Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/ultrasignup.

Featured Race: The Salt and Sulphur 420 is a 420-mile journey run from Salt Lake City to West Yellowstone, traversing the Wasatch Range, Bear Lake, Jackson Hole, the Tetons, and finishing at the doorstep of Yellowstone. This isn't a stage race—it's a test of resourcefulness and mental grit across four states, with all proceeds benefiting the Women's Center in Salt Lake City. Registration closes February 1st. Learn more and sign up at ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=118718.

For the final episode of 2025, Zoë and Brendan share their own year-end reflections, summits, snacks, and slogs, including Zoë's experience hitchhiking to the start line of a 78-mile race in Italy, arriving 90 seconds before the gun went off to stand between Kilian Jornet and Jim Walmsley in a downpour that would last 15 hours.

Then they pull their favorite moments from this year's interviews. You'll hear coach Mario Fraoli explain why the marathon is where racing ends and insanity begins. Steve Magness on why running might be the healthiest cult you can join. Alex Hutchinson on the effort paradox, why we value things because they're hard, not in spite of it. Sabrina Little on running as a laboratory for virtue. And Dan Lieberman, who co-authored the original "Born to Run" research, telling Zoë and Brendan to their faces that ultra running is absolutely, completely, and totally bizarre.

Thanks for spending 2025 with The Trailhead. See you on the trails in 2026.

Featuring: Mario Fraoli, Steve Magness, Alex Hutchinson, Sabrina Little, and Dan Lieberman

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Featured Race: SoCal Ultra Trail at Tejon Ranch — Run 270,000 acres of California's largest private land, normally closed to the public. Oak-filled canyons, the legendary Grapevine climb, and distances from 11K to 100K. February 28, 2026.