I recently sat down with Carole Mahoney, a self-described "hot nerd," author of Buyer First, and a woman on a mission to redeem the sales profession. Carole didn't start out loving sales; in fact, she started in marketing specifically to make salespeople obsolete. But she realized that to help small businesses grow, she had to embrace selling—not as a manipulation, but as a mechanism for change.

In this episode, we explore how she uses neuroscience and psychology to help sellers get out of their own way. We geek out on the similarities between hiking and sales (you can pack all the gear you want, but you still have to pivot when the trail changes), and why she believes the only difference between a good salesperson and a con man is intent.

Key Highlights & Takeaways:

• From Sheet Music to Improv: Carole shares her transition from being a musician who needed "sheet music" (a script) to embracing the "Yes, And" mentality of improv. We discuss why being present in the moment is more valuable than having the perfect answer prepared.

• The "Not About Me" T-Shirt: Carole literally made t-shirts for HubSpot reps that said "Not About Me" upside down, so they would be reminded every time they looked down that the sales call isn't about their product—it's about the buyer.

• How You Buy is How You Sell: We discuss the "cognitive behavioral" side of sales. If you are a shopper who needs to "think it over" and hunt for discounts, you will inevitably accept those same excuses from your prospects.

• The Manager Impact: Carole drops a massive stat from her analysis of 500,000 managers: Managers with negative beliefs about sales are 355% more likely to pass those on to their team, while those with supportive mindsets are 1,000% more likely to build high-performing teams.

• Hiring "Kristen" from the Restaurant: We bond over our shared love of hiring hospitality staff for sales roles. They know how to ask questions, read the room, and (like Kristen at Atlantic Fish Company) confidently recommend the tuna over the salmon.

Memorable Quotes:

• "I’m a nerd who likes to see constant growth... I love to leave things in a better state than I found them." — Carole Mahoney

• "The only difference between a good salesperson and a con man is intent." — Carole Mahoney

• "If you buy that way as a salesperson, you will sell that way as a salesperson." — Carole Mahoney

• "We share the sheet music, but we play the jazz." — Lee Levitt

The Bottom Line:Sales isn't about tricking people into doing things; it's about helping them make a change. Whether you are a "hot nerd" reading neuroscience papers or a waiter recommending the special, success comes down to curiosity, authenticity, and the ability to listen.

Call to Action:

• Read the Book: Pick up a copy of Buyer First to understand the psychology behind modern selling.

• Connect with Carole: Find her at UnboundGrowth.com or connect with "Carole (with an E) Mahoney" on LinkedIn.

• Subscribe: If you enjoyed this conversation, hit subscribe on Thoughts on Selling so you never miss an episode!

Episode Summary

Are you part of the 82% of leaders who feel like "Accidental Managers"? In this episode of Thoughts on Selling, Lee Levitt talks with Ben Perreau, a former music journalist turned leadership expert and founder of Parafoil.

We discuss the most dangerous leap in any career: the transition from Individual Contributor (IC) to Team Leader. Ben explains why companies set new managers up to fail by promoting them for technical skills but ignoring the emotional intelligence required to lead. We also geek out on photography as a metaphor for management (moving from "Auto" to "Manual Mode") and why ignoring the fact that we are all "emotional meat sacks" leads to burnout and high Employee Churn.

Memorable Quotes:

• "There's a reason why 82% of early career managers consider themselves accidental... and a reason why a third of their teams leave within a year." — Ben Perreau

• "We are all just 'emotional meat sacks' trying to be professional."

• "Never doubt that a small committed group of people can change the world." — Quoting Margaret Mead

Key Topics & Timestamps:

• (00:00) – Introduction: The crisis of the Accidental Manager.

• (04:30) – The Promotion Trap: Why high-performing salespeople fail when promoted to management.

• (12:15) – The "Man in the Arena": Lessons on resilience from the BBC newsroom to the boardroom.

• (18:45) – Photography & Leadership: Moving from "Auto Mode" (reacting) to "Manual Mode" (vision and composition).

• (24:20) – Emotional Intelligence (EQ): Why suppressing emotion at work leads to burnout.

• (31:00) – Listening Circles: How Parafoil uses AI-driven peer groups to build psychological safety.

• (38:50) – The "Manual Mode" Challenge: Practical steps for new managers to take control.

About Our Guest:

Ben Perreau is the founder of Parafoil, a leadership development platform designed to stop the churn of new managers. A former music journalist and media executive, Ben has led teams at large organizations and consulted for Fortune 50 C-Suite executives. He specializes in Organizational Behavior, Leadership Development, and the intersection of technology and human connection.

About the Host:

Lee Levitt is a seasoned sales performance consultant, sales coach and the Principal of The Acelera Group. With decades of experience in Sales, Sales Leadership, Sales Enablement, Revenue Operations, and Sales Performance Management, Lee helps enterprise organizations build disciplined, replicable sales operating systems.

He is the voice behind the Thoughts on Selling™ brand, covering the intersection of deal mechanics and the "Inner Game" of selling.

Resources & Links:

• New Manager Training: Explore how Parafoil uses AI-driven listening circles.

• Connect on LinkedIn: Find Ben Perreau here.

• Subscribe: Get the Thoughts on Selling newsletter at thoughtsonselling.com.

Keywords for Search:Leadership Development, New Manager Training, Employee Retention, Sales Management, Emotional Intelligence, Corporate Culture, Accidental Manager, Imposter Syndrome, Ben Perreau, Parafoil.